2011 CT200H failed start - New 12v Battery - video, photos and story!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by atomant, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. atomant

    atomant New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    This is my 1st post. I am based in UK, been benefiting from this forum for a while, silently but today I needed some advice please. Thanks in advance and my query below,..

    I have a 2011 - CT200H SE-I (basic model does not even have cruise control) with 64K miles on the clock, not a prius but same engine as gen3 Prius. The car was off road for about a year. I know this is perhaps the best way to kill a hybrid but I undertook few steps. i.e. jack the car all four wheels, remove 12v battery, remove HV main plug in boot. There was some fuel left in the tank as well as far as I can remember.
    My circumstances changed over time and I needed the car back on road again. So, last week I started preparing the car, beginning with new genuine 12v battery from Lexus as old one was dead.
    Plugged the HV battery connection (the orange/amber plug in trunk/boot). Filled the tank with 7 liters of fuel, though the fuel guage states its near half full (I am now skeptical)
    So after the prep work I pressed the power button. All started gracefully and I did get a ready light as well and the obvious next step is that the engine would kick in but for me it started like a growling sound and stalled and on the mini LCD display a warning came up as check hybrid system.

    So I tried again but this time no ready light [​IMG]

    Luckily I have techstream (OBD) and on further inspection it revealed P0A0F (Engine failed to start). For the car to get to ready state again, I have to erase the MIL code.

    I have captured the video You can hear the engine noise from engine attempting to start (i.e. engine after ready symbol to stall (check hybrid system - message) the noise comes from the transaxle side. The engine does slightly vibrate as if it is attempting to start.


    One of my friend has advised that the car is not getting the fuel and thinks the fuel sender unit may be at fault or blocked and suggested that clatter is MG1's attempt to start the engine and times out (fail safe system).

    I hope it is not catastrophic. The car has engine oil BTW.
    Thanks again.

    CTMIL.png
     
  2. atomant

    atomant New Member

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!

    you are in the wrong forum, so most folks won't know much about it. click the report button, and ask the mods to ve it to the 'other toyota hybrids forum. all the best!(y)
     
  4. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    I would think stale fuel could be the likely culprit.
    Rather than risk depleting the traction battery with multiple start attempts I would cycle some of that newly added fuel through the lines by firing the fuel pump independently (hooking up a 12 volt supply to the pump or perhaps bypassing the fuel pump relay contacts)
     
  5. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    The noise is awful, almost like the engine or tranny is falling apart. Is it like that in person? Maybe you should check the ATF level? I know VVT can be noisy with drained oil, but engine should start ok. Remove the plastic cover and see where exactly the noise is coming from. I can see why some suspect bad fuel but it should not produce that awful noise.
     
  6. Maarten28

    Maarten28 Active Member

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    That doesn't sound like anything normal. It is properly grinding something. Could be anything at this point, I don't think there are any external belts that could have anything between it (rodents) so it could very well be something mechanical inside.
     
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  7. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Even though it's a long shot, I would remove, inspect, and clean spark plugs. Maybe even spin it once without plugs to check for hydrolocking.
     
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  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. See what DTC are logged by the engine ECU.
    2. When inserting the traction battery interlock switch, did you slide the switch to lock it in place, after pivoting the lever 90 degrees?
    3. I agree with the suggestion to remove the spark plugs and spin the engine, to see whether the nature of the noise changes.
     
  9. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    the OP didn't come back. probably gave up on the car.
     
  10. Data Daedalus

    Data Daedalus Senior Member

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    I hope they do come back. We're all curious as to what the problem might have been. I wonder if the HV battery had been depleted to a level where it didn't have enough power to turn MG1 (or was that MG2?).

    Or is it a possible fault in the "Power Split Device".......due to a year of its electrically charged components being powered down?

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws now.....


    iPhone ?
     
  11. atomant

    atomant New Member

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    Hi Guys, Thank you so much for the responses. I've not given up and will not till this resolved.
    So, I did more tests. This particular engine does not have a drive belt there is only a pulley on left hand side as you look at the car facing towards engine. When I crank the engine like you saw in the video. The pulley does not move at all. But when I move the pulley with 19MM spanner I can turn the engine and I can feel resistance as piston comes to stroke cycle but also hear grinding dry noise from the transaxle side, particularly where transaxle is bolted to engine.
    I've been charging the 12V battery to keep up with my tests.
    New video
    link for 2nd test - side view with attempt to start (torch in top for visibility), you can see there is no movement. I think some sort of link between the cvt transaxle to flywheel or something somewhere is 'gone'. if MG1 is spinning the engine should atleast spin like a conventional motor. If it then does not start is a later issue. In my case there is this weird grinding noise but engine is not turning at all.
    Or the power from MG1 is so weak that i can't turn crank the engine. i.e. the inverter is blown! So many things.

    I am going to remove all plugs and do the stick test to see if all pistons move when I rotate the pulley with ratchet.

    I have also got access to Lexus CT200H service manual. I checked the code P0A0F which has further inf codes see below. I can't establish in tech stream which INF code applies to me. as I only see P0A0F as per my 1t post (screenshot)
    upload_2017-5-4_23-59-23.png

    As per recomendations from you guys. My answers are,..
    Yes I did slide the lock in place.
    Yes the noise is really bad like bag or nuts
    I have not done the fuel line tests but will do soon.

    Sorry guys this car is now a pandora box. I'll not give up easily.

    Sorry for typos
     
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  12. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    thanks for the update. a real head scratcher. was it really working fine before the hiatus in service? any signs of cabling damage by say rodents? if not, it really sounds like either transaxle failure or failed damper between ICE and transaxle. what if you try to stay in EV and try to move the car forward or backward a bit?
     
  13. atomant

    atomant New Member

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    haha no rodents - I too think its mechanical but which part; I really dont know yet. cant try EV as the Hybrid battery has only one bar - the minute I see the ready light the hybrid system attempts to crank the ICE to charge the HV battery which leads to this clatter! So moving the car is not an option unfortunately.
     
  14. atomant

    atomant New Member

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    Ok friendly_jacek thanks, I can confirm when the car is in ready mode and the amount of HV batter left I can move 1 feet forward / backward before system shutdown. it is certainly mechanical. Will keep you posted will be off for a week.
     
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  15. southcoasting

    southcoasting New Member

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    I don't see in the threads wether you did this or not but did you look into that other code you have?

    Quote I found online:
    "Most folks don't realize the car has an interlock jumper built into the service plug to notify the HV ECU that it's all the way seated. The idea being that if someone starts to remove the plug when the car is ready on, the ECU can open the main relays ahead of time, avoiding a possible spark. In any case, without the plug all the way snapped down towards the floor of the car, the jumper will not seat, the circuit will be open, the car will not start and code P0A0D info code 350 will be stored."

    You may want to watch this video:
     
  16. atomant

    atomant New Member

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    Guys, Thank you for all the recommendations - I have good news. My car is fixed.

    The actual gearbox – transaxle failed So I have replaced with a used one and it is now working, but I’d like to share some details so other members of this forum can benefit.

    · I spoke to Lexus and they said they would charge me circa 2 hours labour £132 including VAT /hr for diagnosis. The car would need towing which also incurs cost and then you when the vehicle is at dealers the cost ramps up. So, I dropped this idea.

    · I wanted to certain that I am going to focus with right area so I started with engine to check it was not ceased and everything was moving inside (because of the clatter is was making)

    · I removed all 4X coils and spark plugs. Took long piece of hanger wire inserted in the sparkplug hole one by one whilst cranking the engine with pulley with hand to check the pistons move up and down and to ensure engine components are intact. Piston / connecting rod / crank shaft. So this test was a pass.

    · Then I was left with gearbox / transaxle. The interesting thing is when I was rotating the pulley in previous step I was I was hearing clatter from the transaxle side. I could have been the damper on the flywheel as well but everything was blind spot.

    · So I did some research on finding a secondhand gearbox. Called local Toyota/lexus who said a new gearbox is £1396.80 including vat. The labor would be 11 hours @ £132 / hour. I did not go that route but had inserting conversation with the parts guys that all gearboxes in Lexus CT200H / Prius Gen 3 / Auris are exactly the same with minor differences to MG1 Mg2 cable connections to inverter but they all fit the same gearbox which has model code P410.

    · P410 has a second number below it I have now seen numbers from 1 – 9 and they are build numbers (see photos) My Lexus was a P410 -2 the replacement I have fitted from a 2016 Auris is P410 – 5 both.

    · I managed to find a very low millage gearbox from an accidented (totaled) 2016 Toyota Auris which had done only 1500 miles. The gearbox is pretty much in brand new shape.

    · I did a deal with my local Indy and showed him print outs of the steps from Ct200h lexus garage manual and got the job done.

    · When he took the old gearbox down I tried rotating the shaft that connects to flywheel / constant clutch and could spin it with hand and it was rattling J

    · For me the total job costed £680 and my Lexus is new again.

    · Main parts were, replacement gearbox, 4 liter of Toyota ATF (3.4 liters used as per guide) engine and inverter coolant.

    · Attached 10 second video ( rattling old gearbox with hand) - 20170602_133129.jpg 20170602_133119.jpg 20170602_133129.jpg


    · Photos of gearbox being fitted

    · Photos of old and new gearbox.

    The actual cause of this is still unknown but I am happy that my car is back on road and I think I did save a lot of money against dealer cost.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the follow up. I can understand tranny failure from high miles (even that rarely happens in prius), but just from sitting unused? Are you planning to take it apart? It would be great to convey that to Toyota's engineers (somehow).
     
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