2012 Prius v was covered by ZF5, but the dealership refused to provide a rental car

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by Amily, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Amily

    Amily Junior Member

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    I posted a thread last week about my 2012 Prius v suddenly stopped working on the road. The car was towed to Toyota yesterday and it was covered by ZF5 after inspection, but the dealership refused to provide a rental car because ZF5 is an enhancement warranty based on what they said. They need to order the part which may arrive next Tuesday. Any ideas about free rental car if your car was covered by the enhancement warranty?
    Just want to discuss about this case. Thank you and have a great weekend.

    Thank you, everyone for the discussion. And there was also an interesting thing I forgot to mention, someone from the dealership called me and asked me if I want to trade in my prius v to a normal prius before I was told if the car was covered. I said no, i don't want to trade in right now. So they ended the call and called me again 2 hours later. This time they just told me the car was covered.
     
    #1 Amily, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    First, its great news your car will get the inverter fixed free from Toyota. That fix is usually $2300 at a discount. The actual work should be fairly quick depending on how much of the inverter is replaced. You will be getting an improved part that is unlikely to fail again.

    In most cases a rental car is the dealer's choice. You might want to check with your car insurance and see if it has any loss of use coverage. If not, sometimes the insurance company will provide a discounted car rental option.
     
  3. Amily

    Amily Junior Member

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    Hi,rjparker, thank you so much for your quick reply and your advice. I will check with my car Insurance.
    You mentioned"The actual work should be fairly quick depending on how much of the inverter is replaced", usually how many inverters in a prius or v car? what is the name of inverter should be covered by enhancement warranty ZF5?
    The dealership only called me said the car was covered but didn't mention which inverter will be replaced. If they only replaced the broken inverter, does the other inverter still have most chances to break in the future?
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    There is only one "inverter" (sometimes called inverter/converter). There are replaceable boards inside the inverter including a power transistor module that can be changed.

    The inverter does things like providing power to and from the motors, ac compressor, hv battery, 12v battery, etc. Its is also programmed with updated software. In the end it is an essential system that is sometimes replaced whole (fastest procedure) or internally repaired.

    9514AB2F-7AB0-4674-9C15-26CAC0E4A756.jpeg
     
    #4 rjparker, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There is only one "inverter with converter assembly", but it has several internal parts that are separately replaceable, including a transistor module, an MG control computer, and a current sensor. Generally the transistor module will be what fails, but depending on the exact circumstances, it can take other parts with it.

    The dealership will be following T-SB-0036-16 to do the repair.

    The first thing they will check (just by looking) will be whether the failure actually damaged the inverter's metal case. If it did, you get a whole new assembly.

    kaboom.png

    Otherwise, they will follow the steps in your model's Repair Manual (more info) to determine which internal components have been damaged and need replacement, and do that.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    The inverter is a BIG ticket item. Good they’re on it; don’t sweat small stuff?
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Of course the procedures for internal repair are much more like computer building than car repair; I'd almost rather take it, with the instructions, new parts, squeegee, and heatsink compound, to a gamers' convention than to a car dealership.

    Just have to assume the dealer techs are getting adequately trained on this stuff now.
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    I had mine replaced about five years ago. Toyota requires special training for the techs that do hybrid specific work. As Chapman suggests, it requires electrical soldering experience. Many twelve year olds can solder properly but like anything, it takes a little experience before you can do it by muscle memory. No worries. They took mine apart and replaced the power transistor module. No problems since.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I don't believe there's any soldering involved. Just a lot of, ideally, near clean-room work, separating the case, cleaning off old sealant and heat-sink compound, applying new heat-sink compound to very exacting specifications, getting it all properly reassembled and sealed.

    Interestingly, the IPM transistor module seems to include the water-cooling heat sink and coolant plumbing. The heat-sink compound goes between the bottom of that and the top of the DC/DC converter, which lives in the very bottom of the case and is cooled by its contact with the IPM's heat sink.
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    The tech that did mine had to desolder the igbts
     
  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Not exactly. A "loaner" is not required if that is not stated in the warranty documents.
    Special "warranty" programs usually do not include that.

    Maybe one in a thousand dealers will give away something like that if they don't have to.
    And that would probably only happen for really "good" repeat customers.
    Someone who is still driving a 9 year old car probably doesn't meet those requirements.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The transistor kit is a single big flat IPM brick that includes the IGBTs, driver circuits, and an aluminum heat sink with coolant pipes in and out. It gets replaced. There are no steps in the repair manual for solder-happy techs to go at it with IGBTs from alibaba.

    [​IMG]

    The module bolts down inside the inverter case with four bolts, and the electrical connections are five bolted connections to busbars, and plug-on connectors for the control electronics (two connected in step x, and the yellow thing in the middle of the board looks to me like a header that will mate with the MG ECU, which is the board next installed on top of this one).

    ipm-wxy.png

    Those are just steps w, x, and y. They're preceded by seven pages (seven pages!) about getting the heat-sink compound properly applied on the converter module this clamps down to, and followed by eighteen more pages of reassembly (bolting the MG ECU back on and plugging in some connectors, putting the terminal and sensor assembly back on and plugging in some connectors, and about ten pages of getting the case reassembled with the form-in-place gasket properly applied and sealed).

    If you didn't watch the tech that did yours "desolder the igbts", I call BS on the tech telling you they did that. If you did watch it happen, the details of what they did would be very interesting here, and go completely beyond the 34 pages on IPM assembly installation in the repair manual.

    Or it's possible something just got miscommunicated. Toyota's official report on what causes the failure happens to mention solder connections that get bad over time from heating and too-rapid cooling. I could imagine that getting mentioned at some point, and being remembered as if the tech would do some soldering to fix it.
     
    #12 ChapmanF, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  13. Amily

    Amily Junior Member

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    Thank you, everyone. And there was also an interesting thing, someone from the dealership called me and asked me if I want to trade in my prius v to a normal prius before I was told if the car was covered. I said no, i don't want to trade in right now. So they ended the call and called me again 2 hours later. This time they just told me the car was covered.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    From a business viewpoint, that sounds like a recipe for a reliability nightmare.
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    While I agree that sounds nightmarish, I'd have to add I was already cringing at the thought of a dealer tech being expected to follow seven pages of meticulous heat-sink compound application details....
     
    #15 ChapmanF, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That part is inherently part of the package.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Still, I'm too used to watching videos, etc., where a tech who is faced with a procedure that's laid out in several pages of demanding meticulous steps will say "yeah, the manual has, like, whole pages of steps that are complicated and confusing, lot of focus required, so I just do it this way...".

    (Nearly direct quotes from a youtube video linked in this thread ;). Of course that wasn't a Toyota tech. Just have to hope the Toyota techs are really having the seriousness drilled into them.)
     
  18. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    This behavior would have me looking for a new dealership, as I once did with a Porsche with a crank position sensor failure where they wanted to sell me a replacement ECU.

    “the dealership called me and asked me if I want to trade in my prius v to a normal prius before I was told if the car was covered. I said no, i don't want to trade in right now. So they ended the call and called me again 2 hours later. This time they just told me the car was covered.”
     
  19. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    When I had the inverter fail on my '13 V wagon, I got a loaner 2020 Prius for about 10 days while the dealer waited for parts, then fixed it. I can't say if it was an official Toyota policy, or if the dealer threw it in for good will.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    My perspective is maybe different on this; we’re only using the car every 4~6 days, but anyways: if a dealership was (finally) going to do a gratis inverter replacement, would shuttle me back and forth for the drop off and pickup, I’d take it, not sweat the small stuff.
     
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