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2014 Toyota Nav, who is it made by? Any updates?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by Beachnut, Aug 9, 2014.

  1. Beachnut

    Beachnut Member

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    Does anyone know who makes the 2014 Toy Nav? Is it based off of Garmin, Tom Tom, or Magellan?

    Is there an update for it, that will fix it???

    Anyone ever have it tell you to exit, one exit BEFORE you should?

    Background:
    We recently took a trip to my Parents up in Sonoma, CA. We use the Toy Nav so little, I figured it would be good to see how it worked, even though I KNEW the way there. The Toy Nav --> was terrible! Heading north on 880 we approached the Oakland Bay bridge mess, I Knew I needed to take 880, to 980, to 580, to 80 to get around that earthquake messed up interchange, yet the Toy Nav, wanted us to "Exit at Broadway", which is the exit Before the above usual interchanges. It would have put us off the freeway, onto surface streets, into down town Oakland, than I guess back onto the freeway somewhere, (I assume). There were NO accidents, or delays on the usual 880-980-580-80 interchange as I ignored the Toy Nav, --> staying the usual coarse I knew, so who knows why it wanted us to exit early. After we blew by the Broadway exit, it did re-calculate, and THEN chose the "usual" route, (too slowly in instruction though), but had I paid attention to the Toy Nav, it would have been a REAL mess. It FAILED again, on our return trip, initially- first, trying to tell us to take a much longer route home, than the known shorter route, and then again, telling us to exit one exit early, to the usual Major hwy route. (Again, no accidents or delays on the "usual" hwy route). Also on the return 80-580-980-880 Bay Bridge mess- interchange, (reversing the above), it was too slow in instruction, and had us in the wrong lane, too late to make the 980, so we ended up taking the 580 further south than desired...

    This is highly discerning, as we do plan on using the "Toy Nav" for destinations unknown - and in down town Los Angeles, which is even more a complicated area than the last trip. Yet,, if it continues to tell us to exit one exit early, or is as slow as it was in the interchanges, it may get us there, but only after a LOT of MISTAKES!!! Costco has a Garmin Nuvi on sale for $139.00 that I am thinking of buying, and leaving the "Toy Nav" TURNED OFF, or "Toy-minated",,, unless someone here says there is a fix for the thing...
     
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  2. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Moved to audio and electronics
     
  3. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    The map database is NAVTEQ (section 2, pg 68 in manual) and the software is Harman-Kardon. The mapping data is used by Garmin, Yahoo, Bing, M$ Flight Simulator X, etc.

    We're going on a road trip to Yellowstone, Glacier, Minneapolis and Green Bay the end of the month and I will be using my Garmin Nuvi 2555 alongside the Prius Navigation system to see what differences crop up. I've already worked out my route using Google maps and entered destinations and waypoints in both systems. I just finished working out our fuel stops and I'm getting ready to add them to both systems. Yes, I over-plan, but there are places along my route where service stations are few, so I decided to take the time to figure out where I could stop and easily make it to the next stop using Gas Buddy. My Garmin acted up on our last trip, so I'm hoping the latest map update fixed things. If it still acts up, I'll use Maps on my phone to validate key sections of the route.
     
    #3 DoubleDAZ, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  4. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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  5. Beachnut

    Beachnut Member

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    DoubleDAZ , Harmon software, that would make sense. The software for the Toy Nav is something like I have never seen. I have owned and used Tom Tom, Magellan, and Garmin, but none were like the Toy Nav.. I would bet the mapping data is sound, its what the Toy Nav software does with that data that is off, (by one exit), or too slow. I think your plan of having two GPS units is wise, especially after our last experience with the Toy Nav on our trip to Sonoma. I would think the Toy Nav would work fine, in rural area's, with few route options, but it is the congested, nightmare freeways of CA that you must have one that works FAST, and FLAWLESS! The Costco Garmin Nuvi that I am looking at is the model 2558 LMTHD that has unlimited map updates, and free live traffic feed, (probably for just metro area's, not where I live). It also has the very missed posted speed limit's for the area you are driving in, that our old Dodge Dart had, and the Toy Nav is missing. Its very sad, we can not fully count on the Toy Nav to be fully accurate. It sure cost us a lot more than the $139.00 Garmin Nuvi..... Does your Garmin mount look like this one? Garmin Nuvi 2558LMTHD 5" GPS
    Do you think that will work stuck on, (mounted on) the left small triangle window up by the windshield?

    DoubleDAZ, whatcha gonna do when the two GPS units both say to go different ways???:ROFLMAO: :eek:

    Thanks ftl. That was an update for a 2012 Prius. Anyone know if there is an update for a Prius sold in March, of 2014? Maybe ours has a glitch?

    Thanks for the response's

    P.S. Not to be a Negative nay sayer, we got 46.9 MPG going up, and 51 MPG coming back!(y)
     
    #5 Beachnut, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    On a road trip, the Toy nav didn't show a highway I was looking for, so I got the Garmin out to get me the rest of the way.
     
  7. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Have you checked your route settings; fastest, shortest, economy? Do you have any avoidances set, like tolls, traffic, etc.? Are you using standard size wheels/tires? How did you set your route to make it take 980 instead of continuing on 880? Does it accurately show your beginning location, etc.? Is this the only place it suggested an early exit?

    I didn't plan to have 2 GPS units. I've had 2 Garmin units over the years, the 2555 is only 2 years old. I didn't plan on buying a Prius until next year and then I wasn't sure which model. I figured I'd get a nav unit, but I like being able to take my Nuvi in restaurants when I need to plan some rerouting and I like to use if for walking tours. I think the 2558 is the latest in the 2500 series and that's a good price. I also miss the speed limit display even though I usually just follow the traffic flow.

    One thing I've found over the years is that they all take different routes depending on their logarithms. They also take you somewhere one way and back another, mostly due to time of day, traffic patterns, etc. It once took me through some very narrow side streets in Newport RI and I later found it was because of all the traffic lights and pedestrians on the main street. I've learned to just go with it unless I know for sure it's wrong, like in your case. I assume it said Exit 42 or Broadway and you didn't just misunderstand. :) Still I don't know how you forced the route, so I can't think of a reason. I played with Google Maps and I can see the interchange and exits you are talking about.

    As far as counting on it, I think that applies to every GPS device out there. None of them are flawless and having driven all over the country for years and over 200,000 miles with one, I can vouch for that. Still, I trust them to get me there one way or another and they have never failed doing that. :)

    As far as sticking on the little window, that will work and the power cable reaches the outlet under the dash/console. I think it's a little easier to get to on the windshield though and still out of the way, but I didn't really fiddle with the location much, just wanted to see if it would fit there. My mount is a little different, but close enough to know that will work too. I guess my only nit using the window is it's that much further to glance over. But I've gotten used to the speedometer locations, I could get used the Nuvi being a little further to the side. :)

    Since I have my Nuvi set to a male voice and the Prius to a female voice, I expect them to argue a lot about directions. :) Maybe I'll just flip a coin when that happens.

    I was just entering some fuel stops and what a PIA that was. I used POI/Name. I "defined" the search location (Missoula MT), category (Gas Stations) and name (Costco). It displayed a list with only mileage from my current location and no address. I had to check the info for each one to see if the one I was looking for was there. If the Costco is new, like it was, then I had to go through all of them only to find it wasn't in the database. Now, to be fair, the Garmin does the same thing only in reverse order, mileage FROM the destination, not my current location. Who did Harman Kardon consult? I will say it's not as difficult as it sounds once you get used to the quirks. And I'm determined to do just that on this trip. My Nuvi will be used just for comparison purposes.

    One final thing is that my newer Nuvi 2555 is not as quick as my old Nuvi 350 was. I assume that is because it's capable of doing much more and is working with more data, so I don't know yet how quick, or slow, the Prius nav is.
     
    #7 DoubleDAZ, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  8. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Assuming you have the Display Audio system, check the version at Setup > General > System Information (scroll down). Current is 3.2.0, which applies to all model years.
     
  9. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I don't use the nav for direction simply because it only shows 1 of the many many ways of getting from point A to point B. It won't show the way YOU want to take. I think that's the problem with the nav system. You expect it to return a route that you prefer but it doesn't.

    For example, If I would to create a route from Valencia to Santa Ana, It would plot a route going from I5 to 170 to 101 and back to I5 again. Why not just stay on I5 the whole way? It's about the same distance for both ways. 170 and 101 jams more often and longer than I5.

    I do use it to show my location on the map and the surrounding streets in case I need to get around a red light or traffic jam.
     
  10. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    If I'm going somewhere, I check on a map to find the best route and just use nav as a back-up for traffic reports and/or detours.
     
  11. Beachnut

    Beachnut Member

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    Thank you to everyone for all the input! I decided to order the Garmin from Costco. As an excuse for my wife,-- "the 6 year old Magellan that I have for use in my truck, and rental cars while on vacation, is way too out of date, & needs a map update, that they charge you for". I will probably use the Garmin in the Prius, on our long trips, and do as DoubleDAZ is going to do on his up coming road trip. DoubleDAZ do let us know what you find in your comparison between the two, and for sure, have a wonderful trip! Maybe after your road trip, and GPS comparative report, I will just "Toy-manate" using the Toy Nav, and stick to using the Garmin... Oh, the way I "forced" the route, was just by driving the way I knew best, and letting the Toy Nav figure it out. Yes, it DID try to make us exit the freeway one exit early, on two separate occasions, once on the trip going up, and once on the trip going back, but at different locations - different towns too. Yes also, it does give you the three route options in the beginning, (which is what MapQuest is doing online now too. Maybe it IS MapQuest based software)

    If ONLY Toyota would allow you to get the Sunroof, by itself, with NO NAV package............ (Hint hint hint).

    ftl I will check the version next time I am in the car. Thank you for the info.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    so, the toyota nav was actually following your directions.(y)
     
  13. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    I can't argue with your decision to order the Garmin and I hope it works the way you expect it to. Depending on time, I will try to offer some initial observations when we stop for our first night in Rifle CO on Tuesday, Aug 26. FWIW, I got in all my fuel stops entered and already have my Trip Log spreadsheet outline ready with lodging, food and fuel stops just waiting for the actual data. :)

    I hope you'll indulge me just a bit more regarding the 880/980/580/80 thing. I want to make sure I understand what you did so I can try to observe any similar problems on our trip. My understanding is that you entered the Sonoma destination and started driving the route you wanted to take. Whenever you veered from the Prius route, you simply let the Prius nav recalculate. For some reason, when you got near the 880/980 intersection, the Prius wanted you to exit 880 at the Broadway exit instead of following the next exit to 980. I don't know what 880 did after the turnoff to 980, so I can only guess that the Prius nav (thought it) was taking you around some obstruction on 880 and would have eventually gotten you back up on 880.

    I ran into a similar problem years ago with construction in Wausau WI. My Nuvi took me off the freeway even though the freeway appeared to continue on just fine. However, since I didn't know exactly where I was going or where the freeway might have been closed, I followed the Nuvi and got where I needed to go. Later, out of curiosity, we drove the freeway portion again only to find we could have gotten where we were going much quicker had I ignored the Nuvi through that section. All to often, problems that have been fixed don't make it through to the mapping agencies quickly and then routing doesn't always make sense. :)

    Even with the Nuvi, I've had to set several waypoints to force both nav systems to follow my routes between destinations. Experience has taught me that I can't assume the Nuvi will calculate the same route as Google Maps and I've found many times where differences were caused by only 1 mile or 1 minute variances in the data being used. Believe it or not, but even my Nuvi will calculate different routes if it "thinks" I'm on the side of my house vs in my driveway. I've even found instances where it will take me a different way depending on which direction I'm facing on the street. Depending on settings, these things like to avoid U-turns, etc.

    As for MapQuest, I believe they are owned by AOL and use OpenStreetMaps for map data and their own engine for routing, so I kind of doubt Harman based the Prius system on MapQuest. Until I bought a Prius, I didn't know Harman was in the GPS business, but I suppose it makes some sense with integrated audio/nav units these days.
     
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  14. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    The Toyota nav. unit is "iffy" at best. Just for smiles and giggles I used it to navigate to a friends new home across the city (Edmonton). ONE BLOCK from my house it directed me to turn right then left to get on 107 St. That has been impossible for more than 30 years. My Garmin units "know" that and direct me to 118 Ave before trying to turn left onto that road. Ain't technology wonderful. Toyota Canada thinks I will pay $150 to $250 to get an update. Not sure what they're smoking, but they are in B.C. - weed capital of Canada. ;)
    On the positive side, the screen IS nice and big and the unit IS integrated into the car. So I use it for entertainment and my Garmin to actually navigate.
     
  15. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Kind of interesting Dave since they supposedly both use the same NAVTEQ data.
     
  16. Beachnut

    Beachnut Member

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    In Short, GREAT NEWS the Toy Nav seems to be "adaptive", or, in other words, it appears to be able to "learn" new routes! I just went out to our Prius, and asked the Nav to take me back to Sonoma, and it came up with the exact route I CHOSE to take on our last trip. (Which was the best route, fastest route, from all my many trips to Sonoma). This route was not even offered by the Toy Nav on my last trip up there, but today, it was offered up as its first, "fastest" selection! Cool! The question remains,,, will it continue to tell you to exit, one exit early???

    I guess when it comes down to Machine, Vs. Human Brain with "local knowledge experience", Machine will loose. Yet in this case,,, it did actually learn! The down side of this, in an "UN-known" area, it surly will take you on a lesser than best route, but it will get you there, eventually, with a few potential errors. Now on to the questions from above:


    Not quite the above. We left Pismo Beach with a Sonoma destination set in the Toy Nav. Being a CA native, my Best known- actual fastest route is 101 to 880 through the "MacArthur Maze" of 880 to 580 to 980 onto 80 / 580, then 580 over the Richmond - San Rafael Bridge back to 101 to 37 to 121 into Sonoma. The Toy Nav first option wanted to take us up 101 all the way, straight through the city of San Francisco, which hwy 101/1 at that point, is surface streets, many stop lights, and a REAL MESS. (Interestingly the same route MapQuest would route you on). Another alternative offered on the Toy Nav was 101 to 680 then back on 12 through Napa onto Sonoma, (way longer), my "best fastest route" was not even an option. So we originally left Pismo with the 680 route selected. Then I ignored the Toy Nav repeated instruction to go from the 880 route we chose, back over to the 680 route it chose, the Toy Nav finally "got it" and "re-calculated" the much faster, closer route that I desired, (after all possible ways from 880 over to 680 had been passed by). The Toy Nav DID have the right route "in mind" when it then erred! So as we approached that "MacArthur Maze" mess, it said to exit onto Broadway, a surface street into "downtown Oakland" (n) One exit BEFORE the desired freeway exit we surly needed to take- and did take! It erred again, upon desiring to leave Sonoma and return home, it FIRST chose the route all the way back through Napa, on hwy 12 first, and again wanting to have us turn onto hwy 37 over to Vallejo, and 80, rather than the shortest route of 101 to 580- the way we came up. Again, I selected its "fastest" route, but drove my same known route letting it "re-calculate" till it got it right! But when we were coming into Marin, nearing the desired 101 to 580 exit, it again told us to exit onto a surface street, one exit before the 580 exit that we wanted! (go figure). For me, I just do not trust it! It eliminated all faith I had in it. I am SURE, eventually it will always get you to your desired destination, but at what cost of time, and gas, and total FRUSTRATION!:mad: I will use the Garmin I ordered when it comes in.

    For those wondering, the "MacArthur Maze" mess, happened due to the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake collapsing the Cypress 880 viaduct structure. The 880-580-980-80/580 "bypass" became the permanent fix. I would still take earthquakes, over Tornado's and Humidity!
     
  17. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to explain further, I really do appreciate it. I enjoy trying to figure out why GPS units suggest the routes they do and I had forgotten that the Prius nav supposedly "learns".

    FWIW, Google suggests 101/680 up through Walnut Creek and Napa for 287 miles in 4:58 hours. It suggests the same route for the return. The alternates it offers include 101 all the way for 289 miles in 5:05 hours and 101/880/580/101 for 284 miles in 5:04 hours. If I force it to go your way, 101/880/980/580/101, it shows it as 284 miles in 5:03 hours.

    Now, I'm not trying to argue. I'd just like to point out that the units use some kind of algorithm that I believe includes speed limits, time, distance, the number of interchanges, traffic and probably a few other variables to calculate routes and alternatives. While you and I won't quibble about the mileage and time differences, the computer can only offer routes that the algorithm calculates, other than "learned" routes. It's been quite a few years (1978 to be exact) since I've driven the San Francisco area, but I believe I'd opt for either your route or Google's primary suggestion. I would definitely not take the 101 theses days, though I drove it many time back then.

    Having said that, let me tell you how much I think you're going to like the Nuvi 2558 you ordered, assuming it is the upgrade to my 2555. At first I was going to say it suggests 101 all the way, but then I remembered I have mine set to avoid tolls. So, I turned that off and guess what? You'll be happy to hear it suggests 101/880/980/580/101 up and back. This tells me that I may end up referring to my Nuvi a little more often that I thought during our upcoming trip.

    This is an example of why I like to keep discussions like this going when I'm sure more than a few folks have asked themselves, "Who cares?". I don't know about you, but learned something in this exercise and I think it will help me understand the Prius nav unit a little better on our trip. Now I'll definitely take the Nuvi with us.

    One thing I've found useful over the years that I've been using a Nuvi is that it's helpful at times to re-enter the destination as I get closer to major cities. I don't know if it's updated traffic or what, but I've had it offer more efficient routes that weren't offered initially. If I don't do this, sometimes I'll get a notice that a better route is available, but I've gotten in the habit of periodically re-entering destinations along the way if I don't use waypoints for food/fuel stops, etc.
     
  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    As far as I can tell, Toyota has a deal in place with "The Island Of Misfit Toys" to supply their Navigation System.
     
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  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    They've recently switched to TomTom mapping data for Canadian roads. I know, cause the map is identical to the map I used in my TomTom and it's mentioned on the map update summary that I found on some U.S. Lexus site (except my TomTom is updated to May 2014 and the Toyota nav is from some time last year - 13.1). The original 8.1 disc was nowhere close to my TomTom so there's been improvements there (but it's still missing the Port Mann bridge toll that my TomTom had from August 2013 update. I bought a 1 year update with 6 months or 2 extra updates thrown in as a promo).

    I thought Toyota was in Scarborough, ON?
     
  20. Beachnut

    Beachnut Member

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    I surly agree with that statement! DoubleDaz don't forget that the Toy Nav misdirected us to exit one exit early on each leg of our trip. All the rest of the route calculations can be explained by log rhythms, traffic concerns, and such, as there are many multiple possible routes to where we were going. (By the way, my preferred route took 4.5 hours, staying under 75mph - mostly near 72mph). But the Toy nav incorrectly saying to exit one exit early -TWICE---> is the biggest reason I am buying the Garmin! Anyone want to take a short detour t-h-r-o-u-g-h down town Oakland??:eek:

    This is why the MacArthur maze is now such a mess! The 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake pancaked the 880 Cypress structure and the 880 to 980 back to 580 / 80 became the permanent work around fix.

    1024px-Cypress_structure.jpeg