2018 Prius V Base with brakes 42,000 km or 2016 V with technology package

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by Mavanc, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    TL: DR Should I buy a 2018 Prius V Base (42,000 km) with possible brake issues from a local dealership or a 2016 Prius V with Technology Package (69,000 km) from private seller. 2016 is ~$1,000 cheaper.

    Test drove my first Prius V last weekend. Love it. It's a base model, would prefer the technology package, but my old car is dying and need sooner than later, and hope to have it for 10+ years so.. 2018 Prius Base, black VIN JTDZN3EU8JJ075286 was a lease. Carfax report attached.

    Tried to negotiate a reduction last weekend, salesman (who knew nothing about hybrids, and this is a Toyota dealership) said, sorry, this is a no haggle dealership! I said "Buh bye!" Today, I get a notification that the price has dropped by $1,000. It's now $25,998 Cdn ($20,515 US).

    Two red flags.

    1) Collision record, but no record of repairs. There's a few scrapes on the driver's side back door. Could it be something worse?
    2) It only has 42,000 km (26,000 miles), but the dealer machined the front and rear brake motors and service pads in May (salesman tried to say, no that was only an inspection, it cost over $400, I said they did work on it, he was belligerent). Is there the possibility of a bigger underlying brake problem? It's a dealership so I could have them agree to fix the brakes if there's a problem. There isn't a full pre-purchase inspection report, I could get one.

    Also, the VIN on Carfax report for the updated listing doesn't match the VIN for the car I saw last weekend I'm wondering if there are a lot of lease returns, and they're pretending it's all the same car: Black Prius V Base?

    So, is it worth it? Or should I wait until I find one with technology package.

    Then, there's a 2016 Prius V in Victoria BC (I'm in Vancouver), $24,500 Cdn ($19,600 US) private seller, no accidents, 69,000 km (42,874 miles), with technology package, that I'm considering. It means a ferry ride. I want a pre-purchase Toyota Dealership inspection before I buy, but the last time I did that with a private seller, someone else snagged it as it was a one-week wait for the inspection. This ad has been up for a month though. Should I buy it without the inspection? What are my options if there is a problem? I haven't bought a used car from a stranger before. He said there was no rush when I couldn't make it out this weekend (no ferry reservations available if I want to return with the car). Waiting for him to send me the Carfax report.

    What I'm hoping for: 2016 or newer, because it has advanced safety features like lane assist, front collision avoidance etc.; under 100,000 km as I want to have it for at least ten years, and I drive ~10,000 km per year, mostly city; and I prefer the technology package. And I don't like red. I like that a dealership will fix anything that comes up in the first few months. Private seller, you're stuck with it, without a pre-purchase inspection, what do I look for. And I don't need financing.

    Any and all advice appreciated.

    Thank you!
     

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  2. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Just be aware the Prius v wagon (this forum) never had the better gen4 engine. The damage on carfax seems to be glass, eg windshield or similar very high priced glass, twice.

    The brakes are very odd, usually a Prius brake system will last 125k miles or more. Maybe there is salt use up there causing corrosion?
     
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  3. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I am assuming that the 2018 at the dealership is not Certified Pre-Owned? A Toyota Certified vehicle comes with a pretty good warranty. If a 26,000 mile car is not Certifiable, ask to see the 160+ point check report with the reasons it failed. You want to know all the reasons that it failed, not just one reason.

    If the car sat without moving for months in salt air, the brake rotors could have been damaged by rust. The car could easily have sat for a year once it came off its lease. The proper thing to do in that case is to machine or replace the rotors and the pads. Still $400 is a lot of brake work. They may have included checking out booster, which is a known potential issue with all Prius V's.

    When I was shopping for a 2nd Prius V recently, there was a dealer walking distance from my house that was advertising a "Certified Pre Owned" an "Absolutely Red" 2017 Prius V five with only 10k miles on it. I walked over to look at it, and even from 50 feet away I could see that the car had 16 inch wheels (fives have 17 inch wheels). I entered the VIN number from their web site into the following website:

    The car was definitely a trim level two. No GPS, No HD-Radio, No Satellite Radio, no 8-way power driver seat, etc.... They sold the car new to somebody local in in early 2017, so this was not a 'V for Versatile" vs. "Roman Numeral V" confusion. Although if a buyer made that confusion, would they have corrected them? When I confronted them by phone, they still insisted it was a five. Even with the extremely low miles, the car was way over-priced. Moral: some Toyota dealers can't be trusted. I use a dealer 20 miles away instead.

    Not liking Red is a valid reason for deciding to pass on that car. I have a 2013 Prius V two that I grew to love the color. Mostly because Barcelona Red is not a common color like white or black. This is helpful when you drive for Uber. I recently bought a white 2017 four as a second car that is really nice, but now I have to live with my 5th choice of color for many years.

    Wanting the tech package is probably a good reason to consider the private route. The base unit has a lot less soundproofing, which you won't notice during a test drive, but you will on a long trip. The other goodies are worth it. I never thought I would like heated seats, but they are the best thing when your back aches. I could go on.

    As for the private sale, see if the seller would allow you to put a refundable deposit on it. You just want to hold the car long enough to get the TCUV 160+ point report on the car at a trustworthy dealership, before making a final decision. The used car market is hot, and if it means taking the car off the market for only a week or two, the seller might go for it.

    As for your current car's reliability, I would caution you not to use that concern to pressure yourself into a deal you might not really want. You say you can pay cash for either of these cars. Do yourself a favor, and budget some money to rent a car and/or use Uber if your current car breaks down. Taking the pressure to buy out of the equation is important. You plan to live with this car for 10 years. Give yourself the breathing room to get what you want.
     
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  4. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    It has become apparent that this is the dealership that sells lease returns. These are all 2018 models. The Carfax report I got yesterday was a different VIN from the car I drove last weekend.

    Tell me more about the Gen4 engine vs what a 2018 Prius V with technology package might have. Thank you.
     
  5. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    The gen3 engines were the first 1.8L Prius engines and had several design flaws. The biggest in my opinion were faulty pistons and rings but those were redesigned by 2015 so your 2018 v is ok in that department.

    The egr system is problematic and was first used in a Prius with the gen3s. They clog up and clog the intake egr passages as well. This flawed design was completely revised in gen4. Several pundits here believe egrs in gen3s are primarily responsible for head gasket and engine failures in cars with higher mileage, typically 125,000 or more miles. Many owners are dealing with these failures today. A company has opened multiple locations across the country just to fix Prius head gaskets or replace the engines which sometimes blow. Usually the victims are 2010-2014 Gen3 Prii. So far.

    There is not enough data yet on the later model gen3s, especially 2015-2018 v wagons, to positively determine if oil burning caused by rings was the root cause of hg fails or the egr design by itself kills engines. I lean to piston ring issues causing excessive oil consumption and blowby, carboning up engines, causing knocking and head gasket failures.

    Intake manifolds and engine cooling passages were changed significantly in gen4 as well. Intakes fill with oil and condensate on gen3s and cylinder cooling is a hg suspect. Cylinder cooling was dramatically changed in gen4s. Other gen3 design flaws include their brake by wire systems and inverters. Odds are good the last two items were resolved by 2018.

    Its interesting to review gen4 improvements. Most have reliability and mpg ramifications and are still used in new Prii today.

    Did 4th Gen fix 3rd Gen? | PriusChat
     
    #5 rjparker, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  6. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    Thank you rjparker. The dealership is Certified Pre-Owned, it's a Toyota dealership in Burnaby, a half hour drive from home. I think this is the dealership that sells lease-returns, so they keep the same ad up for the many, many 2018 black Prius V bases they are selling with expired three year leases. Today though, they advertised one that is a silver 2018 Prius V with luxury package. Waiting to see if that includes the technology package. The Carfax report shows it was serviced at Toyota dealership every 7,000 km (4,300 miles).

    And yeah, salt air, if parked close to the ocean, could definitely do a corrosive number on brakes and rotors. Vancouver is an ocean city. I live a block from the beach but park in the underground.

    So getting it from the Toyota dealership means that I can take the car home and drive it for seven days to really try it out, so that is good. My husband (who doesn't drive) would feel more comfortable buying it from a dealership, even if it means spending a bit more, to have the comfort of knowing there's protection.

    I grew up in Winnipeg, Canada, where it would get to minus 30, so heated seats, yeah. More of a luxury in balmy Vancouver, but I'll take it. Especially as I age (gracefully), it can help with a sore back.

    And yes, I took my old car (2002 Mazda Protégé 249,000 km) to check why the Engine light came on after the alternator was replaced on Thursday (for free, under warrantee). Service manager explained it to me, won't go into details. He knows I'm just driving this locally until I get a replacement car. But he said it would be safe to drive for another year or two, so that helped my husband relax too. So I'm no longer rushed to find a replacement, and you're right, it's important to have breathing room not to feel rushed.

    I originally started with wanting a Prius, looking for a 2013-15. Test drove a 2013 (not V) a few weeks ago. Then realized I wanted the advanced safety features (lane assist, front collision avoidance etc.) that was only available 2016 or later. Then fell in love with the V. So last week test-drove the 2018 Prius V Base. Then realized how great the technology package is, so am holding out for that. I've learned a lot. Where will this end LOL.

    And thank you for the feedback, it is very helpful.
     
  7. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Enter the VIN of the car with the "Luxury" package into the following web address. It is a Toyota site, and tells you details such as the date sold, the dealership, and any extra packages that were added:

    Vehicle Specification | Toyota Owners

    When I bought my 2017 Prius V, I saw on the above site that it was sold with a $400 floor mat upgrade. I was not happy when I picked up the car, and no floor mats. It turned out OK because the upgraded mats are rubber (which I don't like), and I was able to get the standard mats for only $88 + tax from a Toyota dealer.

    Glad you have the time to wait for the right deal. Information is key. Good luck!
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    I was going to say that might not work with Canadian Prius, but tried, and it does. (y)
     
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  9. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    To clarify: the designation of "Certified PreOwned" (CPO), or "Toyota Certified Used Vehicle" (TCUV) is a function of a Toyota dealership performing a 160+ point check on the vehicle (more points for a Hybrid). Just because a used vehicle is sold by a Toyota dealer, does not mean it will be certified. I believe TCUV is a registered trademark. I have seen used Toyota vehicles sold by Toyota dealers with 90k+ on them, and the limit for CPO is 80K.

    As for all the black "Off Lease" base cars they are selling, I am guessing they were part of a fleet. They could have been leased by a business that had a logo on the car. Perhaps the business did not survive the pandemic. Repainting them black is the cheapest new color to cover up a business logo (and a popular color). That web site I mentioned would tell you the original paint color.

    Fleet vehicles are often better maintained than privately owned. However, you have already indicated that a "base" vehicle is not what you want.
     
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  10. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    Thank you gromittoo. Lots to think about.
     
  11. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    2016 Prius V VIN JTDZN3EU9GJ046520 96,000 km (~60,000 miles). $21,900 CDN (~$17,500 US) at Jim Pattison Toyota in Victoria, BC
    2016 White Prius V dent scratches & sunroof.jpg

    OK. So this one looks promising. I'm trying to figure out if it does in fact have the technology package. One of the items that makes me want the technology package is the surround-view parking camera system. I don't mind a few dings and scratches. But it has two $0 collisions, not sure if those are the scratch and dents seen in the photos. It says one owner, and it's leased. Not much on the service record. It's from a Toyota Dealership, but it doesn't say "Certified Pre-Owned".

    Have to take a ferry to test drive.

    Thoughts?
     

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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Note that the Prius v never came with "surround view" camera (Bird's Eye View in Toyota speak). It only has a backup camera.

    That's a high mileage lease! I'd just make sure the tyres and brake pads are in good condition. I'm always wary of leases since the servicing might be fine (cause that's a requirement) but the wear & tear items tend to be less taken care of.
     
  13. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    Thank you. It could be high mileage (km) because it's in Victoria (British Columbia), at the south end of Vancouver Island, so could have involved a lot of highway driving to other parts of the Island.

    Yes, I'll ask for a full inspection of brakes, tires and brake pads before even booking a ferry to go over there.

    And when I test drive, since I've never owned a Prius before, and have only test driven two so far, what am I looking for in terms of red flags? And is the head gasket likely to be an issue on this one?

    Also, I only drive ~5,000 km/year (~3,000 miles), so wanted something under 100,000, thinking I could drive it for 10 to 20 years. So hoping this one would last that long.
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I don’t own a Prius v so i can’t speak to ownership but yeah the majority of the hybrid system (if not all) is shared with the Gen 3 Prius. The difference is a lower final drive ratio to help with acceleration due to the heavier curb weight over the Gen 3 Prius.

    Also, you’re already getting the later years which included two important updates - driver side small offset crash test improvements and the better LED headlights (Luxury and Tech packages only) which are highly rated by the IIHS.

    Lastly, IIRC, only the Technology package has DRCC and PCS. I don’t think it ever got Toyota Safety Sense. You can check if the vehicle has a radar either by checking the front emblem (if it’s smooth, then it has a radar. If it’s 3D like a regular emblem on any other car, it doesn’t have a radar) or opening the hood and checking to see if the radar unit is present.

    PCS allows for the ICBC 10% discount for AEB equipped vehicles.
     
  15. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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    Thank you. I looked up the VIN in the Toyota database, and it includes PCS: SFT001 Pre Collision System. So yep, 10% discount. That's why I'm looking at a newer model. Don't need technology package to get this though.

    It also has the DRCC: CNV008 Dynamic Radar Cruise Control.

    Those are both standard in 2016 or newer. But the technology package has the LED lights, and other stuff. Kinda sad it doesn't include the radar parking :-(

    Talked to the salesman, waiting for the inspection report.
     
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  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I don't think so. It was optional all the way to the end of the Prius v's lifetime.

    Sure the salesman wasn't confusing it with the 2016 Prius (which was redesigned with TSS-P)?
     
  17. Mavanc

    Mavanc New Member

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  18. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I am having some trouble following the discussion of packages in Canada. Here in the states we talk of trim levels. Some of the things you have mentioned may have only been standard on the "five" trim level.

    IMO, the most notable difference between the "five" and the lower trim levels was the low profile tires on 17 inch wheels (instead of 16 inch). I personally consider Low Profile tires a downgrade. As an Uber driver in the city of brotherly love, the potholes mean rougher ride for my passengers, and an increased risk of a damaged rim.

    Then there are technology package add-ons. To further the confusion, the last year the Prius V was sold in the states was 2017.
     
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