2023 Prius Prime EV Range

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by 00crashtest, May 16, 2021.

?
  1. widely available Clarity PHEV

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. wait for 2023 Prius Prime

    14 vote(s)
    93.3%
  1. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Exactly. 50 miles per charge without adding any weight is easily doable from an engineering perspective. I think Toyota is working with constraints imposed by some bad decisions made a while ago.

    I can't find battery weight for the RAV4 Prime to see if Toyota has changed anything, or if they're just basically cramming more of the same cells into a larger space.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they may seem like bad decisions to us, but i think toyota is quite happy with them. they have been very profitable decisions.
     
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  3. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    I'd rather see the standards changed to match the real world usability. 35 miles is as arbitrary as 25 is. If you take suburban commuters out of the mix, a 25 mile EV range is plenty for every day use. The daily range can be greatly enhanced by home and destination chargers.

    Personally, I would not provide incentives for long range BEVs since that's encouraging longer commutes and wasted natural resources.
     
  4. Unresolved_ERR

    Unresolved_ERR Junior Member

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    30 miles and 35 miles is perfectly reasonable, and I wouldn't get a Prime right now because I'd want 35 as a minimum (although I would not complain about more if it was possible without noticeable mpg impact).

    The post I quoted was asking for a 60 mile range though - quite different from what you are talking about.

    I never said they wouldn't make the range longer, simply that a 60 mile range isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all.
     
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  5. Daniel L

    Daniel L Member

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  6. MMBH

    MMBH Member

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    Well I can tell you I pay much more for car insurance on this 4 yr old Prius Prime Premium (actually now almost 5 yrs old) than I would have expected plus costs for replacement parts (for instance, rear passenger taillight/signal cover) hasn’t really come down in cost. Hence, I wouldn’t consider it the best overall for affordability when other such details are accounted for.
     
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  7. MMBH

    MMBH Member

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    Just not true. Going back to my first vehicles in the late 80s and 90s, everyone raved about Honda civics and Toyota Corollas… My Ford Escorts lasted as long and had over 100k on them when I eventually bought newer vehicle to replace them… traded one escort in on the second and gave the second one to a nephew who continued to drive it further into the ground … plus the insurance costs were less expensive and fuel mileage was great!!!
     
  8. MMBH

    MMBH Member

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    But I converted to a Toyota Prius fan with the gen2 I purchased (first new car ever) and bought another used gen2 with low miles to replace it, only to have it totaled less than weeks later, but 5 years later, it’s still on the road going strong! But, honestly, while I love being able to plug in and drive on electric, I’m not in love with this generation Prius, despite it being hybrid plug-in. I hate the current look, and would have preferred that the used the Prius V style for a plugin. Plus, with the excessive insurance cost and excessive pricing for replacement parts on an almost 5 yr old vehicle, I’m not impressed and looking outside the Toyota lineup for my next vehicle! Also not impressed with the Honda Clarity either for the cost to value… Seriously considering Nissan and domestic lineups next for replacement of my 2017 PriusPrimePremium with only 17,700 miles!
     
  9. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    Where did you get this information? If so, then the MY2023 to MY2028 or MY2029 Prius Prime would get over 60 miles of EV range, which is excellent! The 2017-2022 Prius Prime gets 133 MPGe, which is 0.253 kWh/mi. Assuming the 2023-2028 Prius Prime gets the same efficiency, and that 18.1 kWh is the useable amount, it would get 71.54 miles of pure EV range on the EPA test cycle.
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It wouldn't get that sort of EPA rating, for the same reasons the current Prius Prime's 8.8 kWh battery doesn't lead to an EPA range of 34.78 miles.
     
  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    There is absolutely nothing known about the next-generation Prius Prime at the moment, including when it will be available, which is unlikely to be before 2023 as a model year 2024. So, the next Prius Prime that is totally unknown—and not even designed—at the moment is more than likely at least two years into the future.
     
  12. 00crashtest

    00crashtest New Member

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    This means the 17-22 Prius Prime has a useable capacity of 6.325 kWh, which is 71.875% of the stated. Assuming the same percentage for the 18.1 kWh battery and the same efficiency for the car overall, then the 23-28 Prius Prime (if fitted with a 18.1 kWh battery), then it would get an EPA-rated EV-only range of 51.42 miles (rounded down to 51), which is still better than the just-discontinued Clarity Plug-In Hybrid at 47 miles (48 miles according to range bar on the same webpage) but worse than the discontinued 2016-2019 Chevrolet Volt at 53 miles.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    where would they fit 18 kwh, and what would it cost?
     
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  14. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Toyota is very conservative in improving their cars. My best guess would be a 35-mile, not a 50-mile EV range for the next Prius Prime.

    When lithium-metal (solid-state) batteries start arriving in mid-to-late 2020s, things will change, but this won't happen with the next-generation Prius Prime, and Toyota won't even be the first car company to get them.
     
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I agree. We won’t see significant improvements until Gen 6 (assuming SS batteries are commercialized by then)
     
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  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Toyota has been working on a sulfide-separator technology, which is the easiest to make but known to be highly problematic, and the anode is not lithium metal but carbon (or carbon/silicon) as in a standard lithium-ion battery. It is not clear whether it has much advantage over a standard lithium-ion battery, as the lithium-metal chemistry is necessary for high energy density and fast charging. They have been very quite about it, which suggests that it may never happen.
     
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  17. DOHCtor

    DOHCtor New Member

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    I work at a Toyota dealer. Trust me, Toyotas have their very own problems.. from finicky KDSS systems on 4Runners to just plain unreliable power sliding doors on Siennas and i won't talk about those pesky 2GR headgaskets, etc. Personally, my 288k miles Civic Si always was/is still uber reliable. That's why i could'nt let her go when i bought the Prime. Prime as a daily driver and the Si for the occasional fun drive.

    Marko.
     

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    #137 DOHCtor, Sep 4, 2021
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  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Consumer Reports surveys don't agree with you.

    2021 Consumer Reports auto reliability: ten most, least reliable cars
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    every car maker has issues. every manufacturer for that matter
     
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  20. DOHCtor

    DOHCtor New Member

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    My point, exactly! The thing with Toyotas is, they tend to be very reliable but some things on particuliar models arent. Electric power doors on Siennas, Manual Transmission bearings in 03-08 Corollas and 11+ Scion TC, etc..
     
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