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Featured 2023 Prius Prime PHEV debuts with 220-hp engine and 40-mile EV range

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Nov 16, 2022.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Never let your cats out. ;)
     
  2. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron New Member

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    We already have the 150 ice 115 front 45 back motors drivetrain in the Corolla Cross hybrid awd. There is not a 160hp mg2.

    The Prius phev is a "cheap" improvement on the above drivetrain, they didn't bump the back motor like they should have.

    The ice/battery could theoretically give much more output.
     
    #42 The Red Baron, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
  3. davemo

    davemo Junior Member

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    My reaction was, I see elements of my early 90's Celica GT Hatchback, only 4-door and updated to not look so 90s. This is not a bad thing if you can do it on a 5-door while maintaining its utility roots of the Gen2/3. If you can add bigger battery PHEV, even better. Keep the price down (we'll eventually adjust to the loss of tax credit fun for a PHEV). My worries are: (1) potentially smaller hatch opening and reduced rear visibility (latter offset by safety sensor improvement); (2) lower roofline and lower floorline making entry and exit a little more difficult for the tall among us and older users (and harming one of the big use cases for the Prius: taxis); (3) not much about the rear seat room (again, this is huge for the taxi use fleet purchasers); & (4) if I'm leaning back more and there is what looks like a higher instrument what will happen to forward visibility. Off-setting this is: (1) a bit more zip is going to drawn more buyers than an additional mile or two EPA mpg estimate; (2) definitely will draw some younger, environmentally-conscious users who can't justify the $50K new care purchase for a BEV; (3) greater attractiveness for those of us in a recharge infrastructure environment.

    Questions remaining: (1) there is mention in a couple of articles after the European release event of e-AWB availability, but nothing actually from Toyota that I've seen (could be attractive in our colder climates; (2) whether or not the cargo utility is kept (not just volume but ability to stick up to 10' long items in safely & bulkier items fitting through the rear hatch like in earlier generations; (3) price; and (4) supply, especially for those in a non-CARB state?

    Anybody seeing credible info on any of this would be gladly welcome.
     
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  4. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. My EV range in this weather (mild, no need for AC or heater) has been in excess of 30 miles per charge. 50% better than a conservative 30 is 45 miles. I tend to round numbers when the original numbers are approximate in the first place.

    Either way... I went the better part of 2022 without needing more than the stock Prime EV range on any average day. I don't count my monthly 1000 mile trips as average, so the use of the ICE during such a sojourn is expected and desired.
     
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  5. kojack

    kojack Junior Member

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    The Prius can't charge on the DC fast chargers, but they can charge on most chargers that are at resturants and hotels, correct? BTW, I love discord in your avatar.
     
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  6. kojack

    kojack Junior Member

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    That's a really stupid reason not to buy a car. I had my F150 gas tank drilled and 120 liters of gas stolen a couple of months back, that does not mean I would never buy another F150.
     
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  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Well, I should give the Yahoo person's complete quote, he was basically saying loss of cat converter was his justification to moving to full BEV vs. PHEV. He wants a full BEV and he feels Prius PHEV is not going to satisfy him, due to stolen cat converter issue.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I consider absence of gasoline and catalytic converter a feature, not a mandatory requirement.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Car Care Nut recently showed a Prius '22 underneath, and there is a crossmember profile that gets in the way to the catalytic pot.
     
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  10. fsu23phd

    fsu23phd Active Member

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    Is it just me or does this look alot like the previous generation Honda Insight?

    I dig the aggressive styling and would seriously consider one, but I bought a house on a hill after buying my 2016, and I scrape the bottom of the car every time I pull in the driveway. It doesn't seem to have caused any problems, but unless this is higher off the ground (which it sounds like it's not) I'm going to have to with a Corolla Cross Hybrid or something. Too bad. :) My last 3 new cars have been Priuses (2016, 2010 and 2005).
     
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  11. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    That's because there is no back motor (MGR) in the Prius PHEV and never was. The only MGR in the Prius is on the Prius HEV i-AWD which Europe won't be getting. They took the Corolla Cross Hybrid AWD system and put it in the 2023 Prius HEV for sale in North America and Asia. They just announced they made a better MGR so no more 5kW induction motor. Now it's an Interior Permanent Magnet motor, an improved motor over the one in the Corolla Cross Hybrid AWD.

    Yes you're correct about that. The new battery is 55% larger than the old one. I would estimate the EV only range will be greater than a 50% increase. Toyota's newer batteries put out more power and have deeper discharge curves than the older ones as well.
     
    #51 drash, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "Toyota has released zero info on the charging time for the new battery pack"
    https://electriccarchargerreviews.com/2023-toyota-prius-prime-specs-heres-what-you-need-to-know/

    A 3.3kW charger is cheaper than a 6.6kW one. With the expected capacity increase from 50% range increase claim, a 3.3kW charger can fill it in about 8 hours at Level 1. It is even longer in Japan with 100V 6amp outlets, but many home grids there can't handle Level 2. The PHVs there will have CHAdeMO standard.

    The battery is 13.6kWh in the Euro spec release. The fuel efficiency will be about the same.
    2023 Toyota Prius Prime PHEV Has A Lot More Power And Electric Range
    World Premiere of All-New Prius in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
    There is the Corolla Cross for taxis, and also the Camry, Rav4 and even the Crown. Other countries have a Corolla wagon option.

    These are all 'ordinary' cars. The Prius distinction was being a hybrid. That isn't so now. To continue, the Prius needs a new differentiator. Highest MPG isn't enough, as you acknowledge with power more likely getting buyers. So Toyota is going with sporty design and performance. They were trying to market the current Prime as more upscale, and they may have succeeded with this.

    Info for the Prius is probably getting conflated with the plug in. Europe isn't getting the no plug, but reports could be including it for contrast, and/or wishful thinking is getting into the pass along.

    Overall supply is hard to tell at this point. Hybrids and EVs usually go to CARB states first. I'd plan on a year before non-CARB ones get them.

    DC charging here, no. Gas prices are cheap enough for most manufacturers to skip on it. The Prime does have it in Japan, maybe elsewhere, and I'd expect that to continue. The slower public chargers use j1772 plugs, which everybody but Tesla uses.

    A thief might just cut through that. But they are more likely looking for older Prii that use more precious metals in the cat.
    Or a sleeker gen3 Prius. Modeling for aero tends towards the same shape. The gen4 just added a lot of creases to it.
     
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  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    We are not talking about Level 1. Level 1 charging will of course going to take longer because the current is limited to 12 A. Level 2 charging should be C/2 as in Gen 4. I doubt we will see 1C, and it won't be C/3 or C/4. The charger was designed from scratch like everything in Gen 5.
     
    #53 Gokhan, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
  14. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I wonder why nobody mentioned this before, but the battery is 55% (4.8 kWh) larger. If Toyota is getting only a 50% increase in EV range, somebody got robbed.:D Or Toyota wants to underestimate on purpose. More efficient electronics plus better batteries and ergonomics equals much more than 50% increase.
     
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Toyota did not say 50%. They said more than 50%.
     
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  16. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    And I agreed with @dbstoo that it’ll be more than 50% and pointed out why. :D
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the battery is 55% larger, range should increase by 60-70%
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    From the Japanese link in my original post:

    EV driving

    The EV mileage has been improved by more than 50% compared to the conventional model. Battery performance has been improved so that most of daily life can be covered by EV driving alone.

    Improved convenience

    The battery pack, which was conventionally located in the luggage compartment, is mounted under the rear seats in the new model to lower the center of gravity and expand luggage space.

    This is not necessarily so. Gen 5 Prius Prime's electric drivetrain is a lot more powerful, which will require a much bigger hybrid reserve in the battery. Moreover, the size of battery buffers is also proportional to the battery capacity.

    In their presentation, Toyota claimed top-of-the-class class efficiency. So, we should still see around 133 mpge.
     
    #58 Gokhan, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2022
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ah, so less efficient kwh/mile?

    it doesn't make sense that more powerful motors would require a larger battery, but be more efficient.

    the buffer i understand
     
    #59 bisco, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2022
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You look over the wheel, like in the bZ4X.

    No. It became standard for 2023 MY.
     
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