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Monitor details: a useful Techstream feature I had overlooked

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by ChapmanF, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    In a part of the Repair Manual where I had never really looked before, I noticed that Techstream is able to display data collected during the ECM's internal "readiness monitor" tests.

    The monitor function gets talked about on PriusChat, but usually only in the context that an emissions inspection can't be passed if the internal checks haven't all been "completed" since the last time any codes were cleared or the battery was disconnected. They give a pass/fail indication to the emissions inspector.

    What I hadn't seen mentioned was that the ECM saves not just the pass/fail status, but the actual test values from these automatic internal tests. You can see them in Techstream from the "engine control and ECT" page by clicking "Monitor" and then clicking the "Details" magnifying-glass icon next to a particular completed test.

    These values are a nice addition to the pure pass/fail monitor result, because they can show something getting closer to a fail result before a failure gets flagged.

    For example, I have never had a catalyst-efficiency code and that is still officially passing, but it looks close enough to the minimum that I had probably better start sending some extra pennies to the piggy bank.

    cat.jpg

    On the other hand, the internal tests of EGR and VVT (intake camshaft timing adjustment) seem to look pretty good. The EGR figure is how much the intake manifold pressure goes up when the EGR valve is opened during the automated test. Has to be less than one kilopascal to fail; mine's still showing over ten. (For this test, there's not really a 'max' limit, which is probably what you'd figure any time the shown 'max' value reminds you of some 2ⁱ−1 number like 65535.)

    egrvvt.jpg

    The test value for "VVT stuck" is the number of seconds to change the timing by a certain amount. Fail is 9½ seconds or more; for this test there's probably no such thing as "too fast", so the 'min' of 0.00 is probably standing in for "we don't care about min". The test value of 0.00 seems like it would be hard to improve on. (It surely doesn't mean literally zero seconds, but even "rounds to zero at hundredths of a second" seems pretty good.)

    Standard, non-Techstream scan tools should also be able to retrieve these values, but will only show them by hex codes, and won't know what measurement unit or scaling to show. That information is in the repair manual for use with those tools.
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Any way to quantify EGR gas temp? I’d guess not. It’s been speculated here that carbon coating, while maybe not enough to restrict flow, will insulate the cooling fins, reduce their efficacy?
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I imagine anybody who wanted to quantify that, rather than speculating, would eventually obtain a thermocouple or two, a small drill bit and some silicone, and devise a test protocol to find out.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I forgot to add: if the curious person had heard Westheimer's observation ("a coupla months in the laboratory can save you a coupla hours in the library"), the person might start by taking a pencil and an old envelope into a library, and asking a librarian for a reference on heat exchanger calculations. The pencil and the back of the envelope could then be used to ask "for a heat exchanger of such-and-such size, water/glycol on one side at 85 ℃, exhaust gas at such-and-such temp on the other side, such-and-such flow rate, what is the maximum gas temperature reduction to be expected when the exchanger's in perfect condition?"

    The follow-up question would be "ok, even if that total amount of temperature reduction were completely lost, would that be enough, or even nearly in the ballpark of enough, to explain such-and-such particular effect that I'm speculating about?"

    Probably only if the answer were "yes", or at least "not obviously no", would the person go on to obtain thermocouples and drill bits. If the back of the envelope said "no" or "not by a country mile", the person would probably just move on to speculate about other things.

    The library part would still involve a little honest work to supply plausible numbers for the such-and-suches. On the other hand, the library might also have some published papers specifically on car engine cooled EGR, which would probably have plausible numbers already in them.
     
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  5. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    What section of the repair manual were you able to find mention of these tests? I've been looking for some documentation regarding this exact metric for some time now. Does the manual say how these numbers are calculated? Within the range, which is better—higher or lower?

    Mine has been at 0.253-0.254 the last couple of months. The cat was installed brand new early last year, but it had the misfortune of running ~1500 miles with a head gasket leak. There were no other events of significance after that was fixed, so I gather it must have stayed close to this value since then. If the higher number indicates a higher efficiency, then that speaks to just how quickly a head gasket leak can kill the cat.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    So here's the thing with the way the manual is organized: it has many sections giving details of diagnostic trouble codes, one section for each code. The section for each engine code starts with a "Monitor Description" that explains the self-test that the ECM uses to set that code.

    It turns out that P0420 is the trouble code you would get if the catalyst efficiency monitor test ever failed. So the P0420 section in the manual is where you go to learn how the monitor test works. But of course the display of the monitor test in Techstream doesn't tell you "this monitor test goes with the P0420 code", and if the test hasn't failed yet, you don't have a P0420 code, so finding the explanation of the monitor in the manual is a little puzzling if you don't know the trick. You have to first look through the DTC chart to find the trouble code(s) that might be associated with whatever that monitor tests, and then turn to the sections for those codes to find the description of how the test works.

    The catalyst efficiency monitor works like this: the ECM waits until the engine is warmed up and you are driving kind of steadily for a while between 47 and 75 MPH. Then the ECM deliberately makes the mixture a little too lean for a while, meaning there is still unused oxygen in the exhaust, which gets stored up in the catalyst. After several seconds of that, the ECM deliberately makes the mixture too rich, so there is unburned fuel in the exhaust, which uses up the oxygen stored in the catalyst. How long it takes for the downstream O₂ sensor to show the final oxygen content dropping shows how much oxygen the catalyst was able to store, with more being better.

    Yours may have been 0.253-0.254 the last couple of months, but did you happen to check the value right after the brand new cat was installed? Maybe it wasn't a whole lot higher to begin with. Is it the official Toyota part or an aftermarket?

    I was a little concerned seeing mine at 0.251 in the original post. But that was a year and a half ago and I think it was still 0.251 the last time I checked, so it's possible it just doesn't decline very quickly. (But then, I haven't been driving a lot in that time.)
     
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  7. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    I didn't, unfortunately. The original cat was stolen just 4 months into my ownership of this vehicle, so I didn't have much experience with Techstream at the time I replaced it. The replacement is also an official Toyota cat, brand new from Olathe Toyota.

    Since I do not have an initial data point to compare with, I'm merely speculating that head gasket leak brought it to this level. I remember I went through at least 2 gallons of coolant (maybe more) before I fixed the engine. On the other hand, as you suggest, the number may not have been much higher to begin with.
     
    #7 Mr. F, Sep 18, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  8. ColoPriusV

    ColoPriusV Member

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    My 2012 Prius v with 46K miles shows an EGR Monitor test result of 15.74 kPa (max: 655.35 kPa, min .64 kPa). The O2 Catalyst Bank 1 test result is not too far from yours at .265 (max 9.994, min 0.25), so not sure how much it will vary over time or mileage.

    Other background data - bought the car in Aug '19 with 25K miles, average mileage is 43.5 mpg (70% city, 30% highway), OCI is about 4.5k miles, and oil catch can was installed at 32K miles. No EGR cleaning performed yet - will continue to collect more EGR test results through this winter and clean intake manifold, EGR tube and valve in this spring (around 50K miles). Will monitor the EGR monitor data and clean entire EGR/IM system (including cooler) around 80K miles.

    Related question - is it possible to reset the EGR Monitor test in the paid Torque app? Thanks in advance!
     
    #8 ColoPriusV, Dec 31, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2022
  9. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    If you use any scantool to clear ECM codes, or disconnect 12V power from the ECM, that will also reset all monitors.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  10. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    "I was a little concerned seeing mine at 0.251 in the original post. But that was a year and a half ago and I think it was still 0.251 the last time I checked, so it's possible it just doesn't decline very quickly. (But then, I haven't been driving a lot in that time.)"

    The catalyst monitor results do not seem to have any linear correlation to observed cat function. I just looked at a Matrix with 80k on the odometer. Monitor results were 0.251 for a 0.249 MIN. So I did a "manual OSC function" test.

    Hot engine and cat, idle in Park. Go to actuator tests: A/F percent (or some such). Select only A/F and O2 sensor voltage pids and graph them. Click on +25% and wait 10 seconds to stabilize readings. Then click -12%, A/F goes to around 3.8V straight away. The amount of time before the O2 voltage drops to 0 gives you an idea of OSC. 2-3 seconds is where I see P0420's. New cats do 12+ seconds. This Matrix did 9-10.

    You can do this on a Prius, but (at least on a Gen2) I have to get the ICE running then shift to neutral to keep it running. Times are a little shorter because it's idling around 1000rpm instead of 700 for a "normal" car.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.