2nd Gen Prius Oil Consumption and Preventative maintenance Suggestion....

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Kaptainkid1, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Everyone,

    I just purchased a used 2009 Prius with 159.5k changed the oil first(High Mileage Conventional Oil) and just put the first 4k on it and is at 163.5k. 3k city driving and 1k long road trip at 70 mph. I noticed I lost about 3/4 of quart of oil out the original 4 quart capacity. I know it's a know issue with 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen Prius because of the oil ring on the piston tends to sludge and gum up on high mileage Prius. I also the will be changing the PCV valves since I'm sure it's never been done by the past owner. The last owner had great history and service records for whole 159k. So I noticed he did oil changes every 5-7k and regular maintenance. So the car was well taken care of. Right away I changed the Tranny Fluid, spark plugs, Inverter Pump fluid, oil change of course, Radiator Fluid, Brake Fluid and Inverter Pump.
    I've watched a lot of videos and read through the forums about this problem and wanted to get the Forums opinion.
    So I'm going the change the PCV Valve since it's old and Preventative maintenance. If my piston rings and oil rings on the Piston is gumming up. Will a engine flush help clean the piston rings and oil rings?
    I know the PCV valve is connected to the valve cover and send engine gases back into the intake manifold. I also know with the high mileage engines the gas and oil gets sent through the PCV valve and burns up in the intake. So checked my intake and noticed a little pool of oil at the bottom of the throttle body.
    check photo.
    20190327_165515.jpg

    So I've read running ATF Fluid in the engine oil at the end of oil life will help clean up sludge and deposit.
    Because I'm going to change the oil at 4100 miles I've put 3/4 Quart of ATF Fluid and will be driving for the next few days to get the engine internals all clean and ready for it's next oil change. I will be using full synthetic from this point on. Has anyone tried flushing the engine and did you noticed the oil consumption go down? Is this a waste of time? Will the Consumption issue just worst as the car starts to get older? I want to drive this car for another 100k with no problems.
    If I get good results on the ATF Fluid Flush I'll add it to my maintenance schedule for oil changes too moving forward.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Here is interesting video about oil rings on Toyota's.





    Here is another video about people using ATF Fluid to clean engines.

     
    #2 Kaptainkid1, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  3. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    I don't think putting ATF in the crankcase for the last few miles before changing the oil is very common practice for these cars or I would see a lot of people on this forum recommending it. There has to be some risk in adopting a procedure that would go against the manufacturer's requirements, but I guess that's a risk you are prepared to take, and the car isn't under warranty anymore anyway. I don't think 3/4 of a quart in 4k miles is excessive oil usage. Our Gen 2 burns more than that, and we just live with it, but then our car is now approaching 275k miles, and I can't imagine that it will go that much longer before it requires major repairs, at which point we will donate it to a charity.

    It appears to me that you are very meticulous about taking care of your car, so I don't think it's oil burning habit will ever get out of control. If you keep checking the oil regularly, adding oil when it gets down more than 1/2 a quart or so, and changing it regularly, your car will be probably reach the mileage ours has, burning no more than ours does, say a quart every 2,500 miles or so. Emitting that much hydrocarbon into the atmosphere may not seem to be that environmentally friendly, but you are still saving the planet by running an older energy-efficient car, rather wasting the resources that were used to build it.
     
  4. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    I have seen people put a Tablespoon or 2 of tranny fluid in their engine a little before an oil change to clean up sludge. Not sure if it worked but that was a different time. Both engines and oil were very different. The old transmission fluid had detergents in it. Some newer fluids have “friction modifiers” in them. You might destroy your engine bearings if you use that.
     
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  5. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Ok so I drove 40 miles today and decided to change the oil after running the 3/4 Quart of ATF in the crank case. Nothing bad so far but who know if I really damaged my engine yet or cleaned it enough. I will still do the treatment just before every oil change but instead I will use Seafoam as recommended. I know the big problem with Toyota's oil burning is due to the oil ring return channels getting gummed up after 100k or 160k in my case. Also it has a lot to due with proper oil change intervals and synthetic vs conventional. I think synthetic oil is the only way to go for longevity. I want this Prius to trouble free for the next 100k.
     
  6. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    BAD idea to put Seafoam in your OIL. It is 100% solvents and can seriously dilute your oil and CAUSE more problems than it fixes.

    ATF is oil. Not likely it will hurt anything.

    Then.....I suggest that you continue with the high mileage oil and give it a chance to work.
    And then see if most of your observed usage was on that long highway trip at high speeds.

    If the oil usage is fairly consistent no matter how hard you push it, it may be mostly due to the sticky ring problem.........and I personally think the odds of getting another 100K GOOD miles out of it is really slim.
     
  7. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Here is a Toyota video about cleaning and preventive maintenance for oil sludge in engine.

     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Wonder why they don't even include the instructions for use in the video. (n)
     
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  9. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    So from all the video's and research it seems Prius's would benefit greatly if people did an engine sludge cleaning at the end of the oil life to remove deposits every 60km. This practice would benefit really a lot of cars. Wheather you use ATF oil, seafoam or Toyota clean sludge treatment. Im sure oil burning would decrease and car engine life would last longer.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    If I'm ever at the dealership, I'd like to snap a picture of the instructions on the back of that can, post it. I can't find anything with google image search.
     
  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    And I am sure that is NOT true.......for most engines that do NOT have a sludge buildup problem.

    The well publicized (here) problem with some Prius engines is an exception, NOT the rule.

    Using solvents to strip off a little accumulated sludge can also strip off the oil film........and do more damage to the engine than it does good.
     
  12. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Did you see the video I posted from Toyota about oil sluge and engine clean treatment? They recommend the service with thier own OEM product. They also outline when it would be recommended base on oil change interval or lack of intervals. The outline the different every type owners scenarios. Suggestions when would be advised. Also I think gasoline engines are inherently dirty designs and all gas motors builds up carbon deposits and sludge at different rates regardless of age or brand. So why do you think Prius's burn oil for some cases? I think it has to lack good maintenance and understanding of oil break down. 0-20wt oil is very thin so the design of engine has very small oil channels and requires oil to meet those standards. My Pathfinder takes 20-50wt so one think larger oil returns and lower tolerances. That's my 2cents.
     
  13. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    You missed the whole point.
    Toyota has admitted that it basically is a design defect or oversight.
    And it only happens to some specific vintages of engines.
    The "fix" you are talking about is NOT something you should do routinely to engines that do not have that specific problem.

    In most cases, whatever sludge that does accumulate inside an engine happens where it has NO IMPACT on the operation of the engine itself.......like inside valve covers and oil pans. If you disturb those deposits and get chunks of it flowing around, you can do some serious damage rather quickly.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Interesting that the Toyota Engine Oil System Cleaner video lists missed oil change as one reason to use the cleaner. My take on that: the longer the oil change interval, the more the sludge.

    I doubt it's a linear process, that the oil is just like new for the duration of the recommended oil change interval, then suddenly goes to hell, lol.

    upload_2019-3-31_7-53-21.png

    With 3rd gen Toyota Canada advocated oil change interval 8,000 kms or 6 months. With 4th gen, essentially the same engine, they've gone to 16,000 kms or 12 months.
     
    #14 Mendel Leisk, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  15. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    2008 Prius - burning oil at 135,000 miles | Page 5 | PriusChat

    Here is a good thread which goes over many many Prius's with oil burning problems and Chris (CBarr31) the last poster on this thread got 523000 miles on "Ema" his Prius's nick name and used seafoam pre oil change to keep the engine sludge grim down as I suspected. It help with keeping the oil burning down and he also thought adding a engine clean schedule to his oil change help keep his Prius on the road and healthy.
     
    #15 Kaptainkid1, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  16. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Major break through 171k after 3x oil changes and using "Seafoam" for the last 3x oil changes. I noticed my oil consumption slowed down dramatically. I checked from my last oil change and no oil burning after 1300 miles oil check interval. I usually see any where from 1/4-1/3 quart oil loss. I will report after the next 1300 miles to confirmed. So I feel I might have cleaned up the oil rings enough to allow the oil to return back into the engine block and not burn through the combustion chamber. This problems is common on alot of cars. So its a know issue for Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Subaru's. The 2nd Gen Prius is know for burning oil after 120k-150k. It seems at the high mileage point 120k on the engine it will start to show some oil burning problem, regardless of using Good Synthetic to conventional oil. Knowing this issue with the Prius I wanted to see if I could reduce or stop the oil burning on a high mileage car with good maintenance and adding a engine oil cleaning regiment. I heard seafoam was a good choice and was known by many users it's could help. I'm here to say it's working for me and these steps could help save your high mileage car. I will do seafoam oil treatment on my other cars.


    Here is another example of stuck oil rings leading to oil burning problems:
    At 18:14 time frame it will show you and explain the stuck oil ring issue. So this guy had his problem on his Honda Accord at 180k. He tried MMO(Marvel Mystery Oil) in the Piston chamber soak but didn't do Seafoam treatment.
     
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  17. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    SeaFoam is a solvent product......with NO lubricating properties itself.
    It will thin any oil that you put it into.
    It was NOT originally designed for that kind of use.

    It should NOT be used in the crankcase of any car that is not ALREADY showing signs increasing oil consumption because it will tend to increase the wear on rings and bearings.

    IF......you think you absolutely MUST add something to your oil to "make it better", use a little MMO. At least it really is oil.
     
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  18. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Sam Spade 2 cent should be a cautionary recommendation for those who are deciding to try this preventative maintenance option. Agreed 100%.
    If you choose to try Seafoam it's not recommended. I on the other hand decided too. I'm here document and explain "Preventative Maintenance" is good thing! that I've have done to my car and other car owners should consider "engine cleaning maintenance" for people who own high mileage cars above 150k and plan to own a car for along time 200k-300k. As I stated before their two other option "Toyota recommended engine treatment" or "Marvel Mystery Oil". Normally I wouldn't drive a car beyond 150k and I usually sell my cars and buy a newer used car with lower miles. I like my Prius alot! I want to see beast reach 250k with no problems. I think "engine cleaning treatment" is helping with my problem with my Prius. Other people can choose to read this thread and do what ever they want.

    Peace out MF's!
     
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  19. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Coronavirus recap after 5 months and 8000 more miles on the Prius Preventative maintenance schedule. I've done oil changes every 5-6000 miles and at the end of life I'll put in the Seafoam treatment and drive the 100 miles and change the oil. I now uses Kirkland synthetic oil and it's very good and cheap. 10 quarts for $24. So the last update I was burning about 1/4-1/2 qt everyone 1000-1400 miles before the engine oil cleaning treatments. After 3 cleanings and 16,000 miles I was able drop the oil burning to 1/4 qt oil to every 3000-4000 miles. Now after 5 cleanings the oil burning is down to 1/4 qt for every oil change 5-6k.
    I do a lot of city driving and I noticed after long road trips or highway driving over 70 mph the oil burning is more noticeable. These results may differ for people with different driving habits.
    I read another post here on Priuschat a Mechanic did and piston oil ring soak and was able to free up the sludge rings after one treatment.

    Oil consumption...what I did to correct it. | PriusChat
    Oil consumption...what I did to correct it. | PriusChat


    So whether you add a clean treatment to your oil changes or go about this Mechanic's quick fix. It can help you reduce your Prius oil burning problem.

    SM-J737T1 ?
     
    #19 Kaptainkid1, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  20. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    Thanks for the giving us the update!

    That definitely seems like low oil consumption now. Heck we’ve had people on this forum with gen 2s drinking 1 qt of oil every 400 miles! That’s burning more oil than gas :)
     
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