Featured 3 Threats That Could Shut Down Prius And Other Hybrid Production Permanently

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Are there hydrogen ICE cars on the roads already? o_O
     
  2. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    There were in the past (BMW 7), but emissions could be problematic, because of NOx, not to mention efficiency.
     
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  3. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I've said it many times, EV's are an EVolution not a REVolution.

    HEV and PHEV tech would have never had to be rolled out if BEV tech was ready for primetime; wasn't ready in 2000 nor today. This next decade will be when it happens for auto manufacturers.

    The article uses a common and flawed example comparing the horse/buggy industry and early autos. What they don't take into account is that the early auto industry was a rich mans affair (sound familiar?) until the Ford Model T decades later and that even up to WWII years many folks in rural areas of America (and numerous other countries) still used horses for basic transportation and work. It would take the great interstate expansion projects of the 50/60's to complete the transformation in the USA (think EV chargers). Horse and buggy makers didn't die, they began making car bodies*. It was an evolution.

    *Fisher Body's beginnings trace back to a horse-drawn carriage shop in Norwalk, Ohio, in the late 1800s.
    Fisher Body - Wikipedia.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Mazda had a RX-8 and Premancy that were bi-fuel rotaries. They are considering making the range extender for their upcoming BEV hydrogen fueled for some markets. Apparently, the Wankel likes running on hydrogen.

    California's ZEV program puts hydrogen ICE cars in the same category as PHEV for credits.
    It was also bi-fuel like the Mazdas. When the engine also needs to run with gasoline, it seems you need to give power or efficiency when burning hydrogen. Straight hydrogen tuned should do better.

    Mazda actually used EGR and lean burn to control NOx, which is probaly why the engine lost power on hydrogen. Don't know if it would pass today's regulations. Otherwise, installing a three-way catalytic converter isn't going to be much help; they need a proper mix of NOx, CO, and HC to function.

    MAZDA: Hydrogen Vehicles | Environmental Technology
    Why the Rotary Engine Is Perfect for Hydrogen Fuel
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    In the US and Canada, yes. Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo (and a scattering of Hyundai Tuscon FCEV). I have seen all 3 vehicles around. The Nexo is actually a car-share vehicle.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Those aren't ICE cars.
    Fuel cell != engine
    Did you post here after reading about the Roewe 950:D?
     
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  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Dang it. Yeah I had the other thread open so my mind set was there lol.
     
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  8. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    From memory - BMW was the only Hydrogen ICE to get to market - not that they sold many from what I can read. Others dabbled back at the time, no doubt - WIKI says the first was in 1806!!!! And as someone mentioned, MAZDA, but it seems it didn't hit the market:

    Hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicle - Wikipedia

    BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

    But it just says re BMW 7 "limited production" - doesn't say how many.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Mazda had the RX-8 and Premacy(Mazda5) Hydrogen RE's available for lease in Japan in limited numbers. 30 RX-8's were sent to Norway for a hydrogen project there. Japan and Norway might get a hydrogen powered range extender for Mazda's BEV.

    This is their first hydrogen concept from 1991. It is funky loveable.
    [​IMG]
     
    #29 Trollbait, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  10. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Ahh, yes. That reminds me - it is an ICE (though Wankel ICE). I found this from 2 years ago "... Range Extenders (using a light and compact rotary engine, capable of running on compressed gas, LPG, biofuels or even hydrogen)."
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Their BEV, the MX-30, already entered production, and could be showing up in European dealers soon.
    Mazda starts production of MX-30, its first pure EV - Electrek

    They have demonstrated Wankel range extenders on concepts and prototypes of this car before, and hopefully it will follow soon. The lower efficiency and worse emissions of the Wankel should be mitigated by it running at a set speed to charge the battery. The real advantage is that Wankel's have high power to weight ratios, so it will take up less space than most other engine options, which is a big advantage for a range extender on a BEV.

    Wankels also seem to negate or reduce the issues of burning hydrogen that typical engines can have. The link above covers the details of how that is. So Mazda might sell a version of this range extender that uses hydrogen instead of gasoline where hydrogen is available. It isn't as efficient nor clean as a fuel cell, but it will be cheaper. Then Mazda doesn't have a FCEV program, and they likely don't want to get help from Toyota for everything.
     
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  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    There is an ICE version of the Mirai? I thought it was a FCEV, an EV using a fuel cell for electricity production.
     
  13. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    No, only Fuel Cell.
     
  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Not often I catch @Tideland Prius in a mistake. I am on a roll. I caught Hill yesterday.
     
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  15. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    @Trollbait does that pic in post #28 remind you of the jestons car? That's what I thought of as I scrolled up and saw it.
     
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  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    No image in 28. I think you meant 29 & The Jetsons.

    2020-10-18 09_00_59-The Jetsons - Wikipedia.png
     
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  17. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I've ridden in the BMW Hydrogen 7 now that I've think of it.

    DSCN0826.jpg DSCN0827.jpg DSCN0833.jpg

    Yeah the boot can only hold something slightly wider than a duffel bag. The box didn't really fit. The H2 tank is obviously between the rear seats and the boot space.

    I've rewatched my videos. The rep (guy in the blue shirt above) said it's a dual fuel - H2 and petrol. 200km on H2 and 500km on petrol.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Space is a problem for dual(or bi)-fuel cars.
    Look at the Prime:D
     
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