1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

$4 Gas: It's Our Fault

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by EJFB1029, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. EJFB1029

    EJFB1029 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    4,726
    206
    0
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Republic of Texas
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    ABC News: $4 Gas: It's Our Fault

    $4 Gas: It's Our Fault
    The 1970s Energy Crisis Shocked Us Into Action; Then We Resumed Bad Habits

    When the first crisis struck in the 1970s, Congress, the White House, and the Big Three automakers all initially responded. Cars were downsized. Engines were made smaller and more efficient. Highway speed limits were cut to 55 miles per hour. Tough, new gas mileage requirements were imposed.

    All this got results. Average fuel economy for new cars and light trucks rose from 13.1 miles per gallon in 1975 to 22 mpg in 1987. Automakers cut the average weight of vehicles from 4,060 pounds to 3,221 pounds. Engine horsepower declined from 137 to a more thrifty 118.

    The effect was so dramatic that it scared the living daylights out of the oil giants such as Saudi Arabia and Iran by showing them that Americans could get along without so much of their expensive oil. Supplies soon rose and prices dropped. Then America went back to sleep.

    It was too little and too late for this crisis. Instead, the actual gas mileage of cars and light trucks produced last year was only 20.2 mpg  worse than it was in 1987. The Environmental Protection Agency says that in 2006, vehicles sold in America were the heaviest, fastest, and most powerful of any since it began collecting data. A typical engine, just 118 horsepower by 1987, now boasts 223 horsepower.

    There are exceptions, of course. The Toyota Prius actually exceeds the 40 mpg standard that Bryan wanted by 2006.

    When Senator Bryan fought for his energy bill 17 years ago, then Energy Secretary James Watkins accused proponents of "misleading" the public on gas mileage. Mr. Watkins said that imposing higher mileage rules would cost jobs at auto factories. He noted: "The president [Bush 41] has said: 'I will not do anything to force our people out of jobs&.' We better take it easy before we impose additional burdens on our society by gimmicks [like higher mileage rules]."

    With hindsight, just the opposite is happening. Today, hundreds of thousands of US jobs are at risk at airlines, auto plants, restaurants, hotels, amusement parks, trucking companies, and other industries that benefit from cheap fuel.

    It sure would help if all of us not just Prius drivers were getting 40 mpg.

    " John Dillin is a former managing editor of the Monitor.
     
  2. moxiequz

    moxiequz Weirdo Social Outcast

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    2,781
    19
    1
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I noticed a gas station sign today here in Spokane. 3.99.9 for regular.
     
  4. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    That's *very* exciting, Daniel. Has been over $4.50 here for weeks. ;)

    Yeah, if this being "our fault" is a surprise to anybody... wait until I tell you about the Easter Bunny. GREAT comic above! The difference this time? There really is no way for the pendulum to swing back the other way. Should would have been less painful if we'd stopped the pendulum the first time in the 70's.

    Ya know... back in the 1940's more residences used solar to heat water than any other means. Then we found natural gas. Poof went the solar hot water industry. Sure would be nice to have had that infrastructure in place today, eh? In Isreal new construction is *required* to have solar hot water even though it became cheaper (up front) to do it other ways). Imagine that - a government decree that has foresight. That would never work here, of course. I mean... what's in it for me? Can you imagine our governement ever telling us that we MUST drive more efficient cars? Or *gasp* NO cars? ha.

    Well, who's gonna laugh last?
     
  5. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    It's not our fault. Gas would eventually be $4.00 a gallon at some point. It's our fault it happened as soon as it did.
     
  6. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    It's our fault we were not ready for it. It's our fault we are dependent on oil no matter what they decide to charge us for it. It's our fault we are addicts.
     
  7. habu968

    habu968 Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    10
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Of course, there was not the China and Indian middle class explosion back in the 70's and the increased oil demand from these countries. There are MANY factors that went into this.
     
  8. amped

    amped Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    3,892
    694
    0
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It's our fault that we're the only developed nation involuntarily refusing to extract our natural resources.
     
  9. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    7,201
    1,073
    0
    Location:
    Northampton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It's not my fault. I haven't driven a car that gets less than 30 MPG (and usually a lot more) in over 20 years.
     
  10. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    1,498
    88
    0
    Location:
    SE PA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Blame the media, too. They spend more time discussing political horseraces than they do on important issues like health care, gasoline consumption and global warming.
     
  11. EJFB1029

    EJFB1029 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    4,726
    206
    0
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Republic of Texas
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    You are right, we should just drill out Alaska and sell all to China and India, because thats exactly what would happen, more US drilling would mean nothing to price, the oil is not owned by the US, and is not enough to change price. Now if you want to Nationalize the oil companies, now thats a whole different story.
     
  12. amped

    amped Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    3,892
    694
    0
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The US owns most of the resource rich land and grants leases to extract and permits to construct refineries.

    Nationalize oil companies? Nice, then we can become just like Mexico, Russia, Venezuala, China and other Socialist Utopias, the liberal dream.
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    You're joking, right? Please say you're joking!
     
  14. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius

    If I get lucky and get a school close to my house, I can bike. My current school is 12.5 miles away by freeway. I never checked the bus routes to see how many times I'd have to change buses or how long it would take, but I'm guessing 45 min to an hour to travel streets routes that take me 12 min. by freeway in my Prius. I bought the Prius in 2005 because I knew I'd be changing schools and didn't know where I'd end up and had to prepare for a commute. San Diego mass transit sucks. Plain and simple.

    My school has opted to save money be discontinuing the Teacher Librarian position. So.....I'll be at another school in the Fall. Maybe as a librarian, maybe as a classroom teacher. But I have no idea what school I'll end up at. There are several newer schools in the area that probably have probationary teachers that have been RIFd. I may end up at one of them.

    But I do not consider it my fault that the government and the corporations of the United States did not raise CAFE, provide me with efficient mass transit or provide me with an alternative to the ICE car. Toyota did and I bought one. I'd have bought an EV1 if GM had sold them. But they didn't and I don't lease. I didn't know about the RAV4 EV or I might have purchased one of them. I need something that I can drive on the freeway so your ZAP is out.

    I vote, but my vote doesn't always prevail.

    I've done more than some, less than others. I'm doing what I can.

    I can't avoid oil but I didn't create the situation and given an alternative I'll take it. But I can't stop working nor will I sell my house and live in a cardboard box.
     
  15. EJFB1029

    EJFB1029 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    4,726
    206
    0
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Republic of Texas
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Doesn't matter who owns the land, we lease the land to the oil companies for a really really good rate, they own the oil, unless you are advocating Nationalizing the oil companies, I'm not, but you sure seem to be.
     
  16. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Typical neo-con straw-man "logic." According to this way of thinking, if we merely assert that a strategic resource under our land, which is necessary to the security and the economy of the nation, should by rights belong to the nation, we are told that this one sensible act would make us "just like Mexico, Russia, Venezuala, China." etc. Is anybody really dumb enough to think that nationalizing oil would make us start eating beans and tortillas, or that it would turn Michigan into Siberia, or that it would make us start speaking Chinese or overnight make us change our national pastime from baseball to soccer?

    "Just like Mexico, Russia, Venezuala, China"??? The implication is that if we adopt one good idea from these countries, we'd become "just like them."

    That argument would not even be worth replying to if there were not so many people in this country so thoroughly brainwashed that the mere use of the word "socialism" sends them into an epileptic fit.

    No, nationalizing oil would not turn us into a socialist country. Would that it were so easy! Capitalist consumerism is the most efficient way to create abundant useless goods and services, and it is also the quickest way to deplete natural resources and leave the Earth a more barren place than you found it. Capitalism has given us computers and SUVs and iPhones, but it's also given us air in big cities that you cannot breathe, and $4 gas on its way to $15, and grocery stores chock full of foods that are 95% sugar with a little processed corn added. Are we really better off now than our grandparents were growing up? We can move 1,000 times faster, and we are always in a hurry and always late to get somewhere; our incomes are 10 times greater, and we are in debt up to our ears; We imprison a greater proportion of our population than any other nation in the world, and yet we live in constant fear of crime; we have GPS satellites that tell us exactly where we are, but we live our lives wishing we were somewhere else; as a nation we eat more meat than any nation in history, and we are unhealthier than we've ever been.

    And all this is the inevitable legacy of capitalism. But the mere use of the word "socialism" sends fear down the spine of America. Our fear is what will ultimately destroy us.
     
  17. bac

    bac Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    863
    52
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    It's our fault for electing the wrong leaders over and over again. We could have EASILY been completely energy independent by now had we elected the right leadership. You know the addage ... "America, we get what we deserve".

    So instead of energy independence, we fight oil wars that waste hundreds of thousands (certainly millions before it's over) of innocent lives.

    It's okay though ... since we're doing this killing in God's name. :rolleyes:

    ... Brad
     
  18. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It's all my fault, all of it but who said $4.00 per gallon is enough, I want $8.00 per gallon and even then I might push the price higher.

    I don't think it's a bad thing actually.
     
  19. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    7,201
    1,073
    0
    Location:
    Northampton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Yeah. I don't believe in smiley faces so my tongue-in-cheek posts sometimes don't come across that way...