400,000 miles?

So you're kind of banking on it lasting 400,000 miles. That's a lot to ask of any car.

What if you used all of the $200 you're saving per month as additional car repayments. Have you calculated by how that would alter the pay back time?

 

Get the Prius. If most of your driving is highway, there will be very little stress placed on the hybrid components. The most wear will be on the tranny and the engine. With that in mind, make sure you change oil and tranny fluid regularly (despite no requirement to change the tranny fluid. I would recommend every 50-60k miles.

Additionally, since you're in a colder climate, there will be even less stress placed on the battery. IMO, the Prius is easily as reliable as the Camry.

 

You've come to the right place to find people who will try to convince you the Prius is always the right car for the job.

Obviously, that isnt' the case. Still, there are misconceptions about the Prius (and hybrids, generally) which make it very difficult for some people to believe the car can do what other cars can do.

It is hard for me to believe that a Prius could not do anything a Camry could do (except for carrying 5 adults comforably for any length of time). I would say the 2010 and later Prius models will do better for you in winter conditions and challenging driving than the '08 model you're considering. Still, the '08 is quite hardy.

My first thought has been to recommend you to a highly experienced Prius owner with considerable time in Minnesota winters. Please take a look at John1701a's extensive website. Please start by following his link to Winter Misconceptions and then download his .pdf file. He has much information about each of the Prius models, not just from others, but also from his own ownership experience.

 

It is unwise for you to purchase the Prius with a five-year loan if you must rely upon Toyota dealer service and your budget does not include large four-digit amounts set aside for vehicle repairs. It is not reasonable to expect the car to last 400K miles without one or more major repairs required (traction battery, inverter, transaxle, engine, brake actuator).

If you are lucky it is possible for that to happen; but that is not highly likely. The Prius is highly reliable but is also an incredibly complex vehicle. 400K miles is well beyond industry end-of-life expectations.

 

If you are going to drive it to nearly 400k miles, and the Prius will be saving nearly $200 per month in fuel, then that savings will add up to nearly $11,000 in fuel over that time. A replacement battery should be under $3000 for a new one, less for a refurbished unit.

Battery life seems to be more a function of hot climate and calendar age than of actual odometer reading. Taxi drivers get huge mileages from the battery because they roll lots of miles in a short time, just as you do.

 

Hopefully OP maintains his cars as best he can.

It is not reasonable to presume 400k miles from a car. It obviously happens, but even if accidents are excluded my WAG is that median life of a Toyota is 300k miles.

I'm curious -- what is your annual average mpg on the Camry, and what speeds do you drive ? If I assume 50 mpg in a Prius and $3.5/gallon fuel, your $200/month savings statement implies average fuel economy of 34.3 mpg in the Camry.

 

I think you need a diesel, but a Prius is also a good bet.

 

I don't think he wants the bills for maintenance and repair of a diesel. Or worrying if the car will start in the Dakota winter.

 

Another option to consider is buying a Prius with 100,000 miles on it and driving it for 50,000 miles... Then sell it and buy another one... Sometimes the people on here who are constantly searching to buy their next used Prius find incredible deals due to the simple fact that they're always looking... They develop a talent for finding grandmas who only drove their prius for shopping several times a week.

This also gives you a chance to try out other vehicles, like American cars that depreciate really fast. For example a 2012 Chevy Cruz or 2012 Ford Fiesta get great gas milage and are built to last 300,000 miles and a few years from now a used one is going to cost you less than $8K and if you don't like it you can just resell it and get something else... Point being, a plan that doesn't depend on just one car for 400k is going to be more realistic.

Be grateful your Camry lasted so long and don't push your luck with the next car!

 

*cough*. Have you looked at the reliability record of the Cruze in CR ? Ughh

The general idea of a reliable, high(er) mpg highway vehicle certainly has merit though.
Here is a list from fueleconomy.gov of cars from 2007-2010 that get at least 35 mpg on the highway sorted by highway mpg.

 

In 2012 the Cruz and the Fiesta for the most part beat most other economy cars (foreign & domestic) as the top two best values when considering all the factors including reliability. The stigma of American cars however (your bad cough) is precisely why these cars are going to depreciate way faster and be available used at rock bottom prices compared to a Prius. The reviews show that Ford and Chevy have made huge advances in reliability / building cars that can go 300K with just fluids and plugs changed.

Take a look at some of these links... The Prius was number one for years on these charts and the fact that other cars have upstaged them is going to be significant when these cars show up half-price used in a few years.

Best Affordable Small Cars Rankings | U.S. News Best Cars
Consumers' Favorites: Best Economy Cars - Edmunds.com
2012's Best Small Cars For Less Than $20,000 - The Washington Post

 

Prius and winter driving are not a great combination. That said, it isn't too bad with a set of true winter tires. But if I was driving a lot during the winter I would be very concerned. It's pretty easy to high-center on a big pile of snow that the plows leave around here in the intersections during a hard snow. That 6.5" of clearance doesn't give you a lot of room before you're stuck.

That's my thoughts. My 2nd thought is, you're happy with what you got, get another one...

Tom

 

Owner survey, courtesy of CR

 

All of this is pretty simple.
75,000 miles a year?
Mostly highway miles?

Get a used Prius.
Done.

The fuel savings alone will save you enough $$ to make up for both the higher buy-in cost and any repairs that are required from 60K through to the end of the vehicle's service life.
Even an initially somewhat moderately maintained G2 or G3 should easily attain lunar mileage with proper care after you take ownership,
There's just no getting around the math. Only a diesel can attain close to a Gx's highway fuel efficiency, and then you're paying more for the fuel and a helluva LOT more for any repairs that are necessary for the diesel if it breaks.....and you know what? Like hybrids, diesels have a higher buy-in. Call it the 'diesel premium'.
Other than hybrid components (traction battery, inverter, regenerative brakes etc...all of which are lightly used on the highway) the G3 is a small, front drive, gas sipper and there's currently nothing out there that is cheaper to own and operate on the highway, and for the extended mileages that you drive.

Like I said....
It's a no-brainer.

Good Luck!!

 

Interesting.... I definitely agree that reliability was a huge problem last decade for american cars... But what I've experienced with the 2012 models is a huge improvement. And the 2012 reliability numbers aren't in your chart, just a prediction based on previous years. In four or five years when these 2012's start hitting high mileage we'll find out if things have really changed with American cars. Based on my experience with car rentals while traveling, the 2012 american cars are way higher quality than the older models, and the reviews reflect that...

 

Assumptions:
Prius 45 mpg
Other 35 mpg
75k*3 miles of ownership miles
$3.5/gallon fuel


Prius fuel cost will be $17500
Other car fuel cost will be $22500

Prius fuel savings: $5000
That probably is ballpark how much the Prius will cost more than the alternative car, but does not include higher finance charges for the Prius, higher risk of expensive repairs, and less availability of comptent repair shops instead of Toyota dealerships.

I say not a no brainer. OP will have to shop around and see what is available to him locally.

 

If I had to be on the road every day for the duration of a North Dakota winter the amount of money lost to getting regularly stuck in the snow or spinning out and crashing would far outweigh the cost of driving a more expensive less efficient vehicle that's designed for those conditions. There's a reason the Prius is a popular car primarily in sunny regions of the country.

 

And herein lies the problem with asking a question like that on a forum like this. You end up more confused than when you started.