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693 PiP sales Feb '13 in US, what's up?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by cycledrum, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Except that the rebates and incentives favor the larger battery. Such that the Volt Premium is cheaper than the PIP Advanced. Toss in the crazy dealer incentives and you can have a Volt for about the Price of a Three with Solar Roof.
     
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    This deal is isolated to a few Eastern states though. In the West there is only a $500 TFS bonus and you get a car pool lane sticker in Cali. Bleh.
     
  3. RBooker

    RBooker Member

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    In my opinion the goal should be to increase the US fleet mpg to as high a point as possible. While many here think the PIP battery is too small one should consider the overall outcome. According to the data on Fuelly the PIP is averaging 1.3 gallons per 100 miles compared to the 2.1 gallons per 100 used by a std Prius. Assuming you drive 15,000 miles per year the PIP will save you about $468 in gas cost per year at $3.90 per gallon.
    cost gas /100 miles:
    std Prius =$8.19
    PIP = $5.07
    The cost of charging a PIP is typically ranges from $100 to $200 per year.

    Current incentives/rebates and the tax credit (if you qualify) allow you to purchase a PIP for about the same price as a std Prius (~$25,500). For most potential buyers the ROI is less than 5 years. My ROI calculation does not include savings from TFS 0% 5-year loan.

    According to Fuelly 2012 Volt is averaging 136 mpg (.74 g/100 miles).
    Cost of gas /100 miles = $3.00 (premium)
    The average driver will save
    ~$310/year diving a Volt compared to a PIP
    ~$780/year diving a Volt compared to a std Prius
    Need to subtract difference in cost of kWh to charge battery

    In my case the price differential of the PIP versus the Volt (after incentives & rebate) was ~$5k. Tax on the $5k $400. A 0% was not available for the Volt. I estimate the cost of the loan to be ~$1,500 to $2,000. I estimate to true difference (PIP vs. Volt) in cost at the time I made my purchase to be at least $7k.

    When I finished running the numbers the PIP was the better option based on cost of ownership.

    At this point, I am doing better than average. Lifetime MPG for my PIP 120 MPGe. I am sure I could squeeze 200 MPGe out of a Volt.
     
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  4. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    I've got time to wait for them to deliver, while I "suffer" with this compromise. They know how to do it, and more. Trust me...it's coming.
     
  5. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Anyone finding themselves going reallllyyy slow to max the EV range?

    I have to drive reg Pri VERY slow to head towards 60 MPG.
     
  6. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Except I never mentioned the Leaf.
    But, use a little thought. If only 2% of commuters need to go over 100 miles per day, then it isn't 90% that need to go 80 miles. It is more like 4-5%. And only a few percent more that need to go 60 miles.

    Get my point??

    ---

    The two flats I've had in the last 25 years were caused by nails (my commute for a few years went by a new housing construction zone). Both were slow leaks detected the next day. When I get around to it I'm going to get a small 12v air compressor.

    Mike
     
  7. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    Its not a hassle considering the benefit. And I'm sure John was just throwing out a number.. but I dont think its ever taken me 30 seconds to plug in :D.. more like 10-15 seconds.. I'd much rather plug in after each trip than to go to a gas station.

    Keeping a PiP in EV takes no more mental work and focus than driving any other car. Once you know where the threshold is, you learn to drive up to that point.

    If you leave rubber at every stop light and use the accelerator like a toggle switch (either on or off), then I suppose you may find it difficult to keep the PiP in EV.
     
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  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Yes, looking at the overall big picture reveals a different "green" story. The bragging rights of having a large capacity battery quickly become a liability rather than a benefit when it comes to high-volume penetration.

    Lots of small have far more profound of an impact. Just look at how much ethanol is used by E10 refueling compared to E85.
     
  9. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    In my 40 + years of driving, I had four punctures at highway speed caused by running over debris left on the freeway.
    All the cars have full size spare and able to get home.
    For nail punctures, so many times I lost count and all have spares to get me to the tire shop and never towed.
    I will not drive a car without a spare.



     
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  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nissan has slashed the msrp on the LEAF for 2013. I imagine Toyota will have to do the same on the PiP if they wish to even sell 100s a month.
     
  11. tarantoga

    tarantoga Junior Member

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    HOV stickers in California are valid only until end of next year, so that point is quickly waning unless they extend the expiration date. Since the PIP was the cheapest way to get a sticker at that time (Jan 2012), it probably drove a lot of sales.
     
  12. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    A law was introduced in the state legislature last month to extend the date a couple of years, and it is winding its way through the usual glacial process.
     
  13. igneous

    igneous New Member

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    It's a great car, and I was totally set on getting one until I realized I could get a volt for pretty much the same price. The lack of discounts from Toyota, and the tiny tax rebate compared to the volt kill it for me. I get that it depends on the driving style that you have, but the volt is just more car for a very similar price.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Ever wonder if consumers are thinking beyond the immediate discounts, considering cost instead?

    After all, cost is a major factor revealing whether or not the design will be able to reach out beyond niche. Some people simply don't want to own a rare vehicle. Common means less expensive maintenance & repairs, along with the better chance of getting a good deal on a trade or sale many years later.

    The smaller battery-pack obviously keeps cost lower. Sharing a body, engine, motors, and interior with a non-plug hybrid counterpart does too.
     
  15. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    The PIP has a larger battery than all other Prius models. CHECK.

    and PIP owners brag on its performance (see above). CHECK

    Thus your hypothesis for low PIP sales/lack of high-volume penetration. Interesting John.

    :)

    When it comes to EV's, I still think for the Joe Average Buyer who's looking at window stickers/MSRP it comes down to simple math: purchase cost/EV miles. Poorly trained sales staff who's only help is "you can get an HOV sticker" aren't helping much either.
     
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  16. SJ PiP

    SJ PiP Member

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    exactly... even though i didn't get the massive East Coast discounts, i'm still more than satisfied w/my PiP advanced. however, to the non-enthusiasts that ask about my PiP, they fixate on "how many miles electric" (11mi) and "how much" (low 30s after rebates in CA for advanced). being a Prius variant makes it that much harder to justify any price difference more than a thousand or so (being unique models, Volt and Leaf don't have this issue)
     
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  17. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Interesting discussion. All vehicles mentioned are quality and there is nothing wrong owning any one of them, yes even the Volt. However don't try to the justify the cost/valuation, because a Corolla "for example" still comes out ahead in the end. Just buy what ever you like and enjoy it. ;)
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The hypothesis sighted the difference between PLUG-IN capacities.

    Regular hybrids without a plug were not included.
     
  19. RBooker

    RBooker Member

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    I have little doubt that I made the right choice at the time. I expect my PIP to end up costing me less than if i had purchased a Volt. If my commute was longer I am sure the numbers on the Volt would improve.

    I feel an informed decision require you to look beyond cost/EV. The analysis should include local annual temperature, the driving pattern and cost of charging the battery.

    I expect battery capacity to increase significantly over the next 5 to 10 years. As an early adapter I am supporting the development of a market that I judge as sustainable.
     
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...wow that's a lot of cars on the OP list. They do not show Camry Hybrid breakout, don't think. In general Toyota is low for Feb_2013 so maybe they were taking a PR break?