87 MPG(e): Toyota Confuddles PC experts

The number is best compared to the MPGe numbers of 93/94 for Volt, and 99 for Leaf. It's also only an internal test. When the EPA tests it later this year, we may see an improvement.

Keep in mind, the MPGe values are simply reference numbers.... YOUR MILEAGE WILL GREATLY VARY. If you think Prius MPG varies by a lot depending on driving conditions and trip patterns, you ain't seen nothing yet. It makes a huge difference. Those with frequent shorter trips and the opportunity to charge in between will benefit the most.

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

excellent! 7 miles to work, throw it on charge, and 7 miles home. saweeeeeeet!!!

 

Not true for me. Our total gas bill for three vehicles is about $250/mo. If I replace my 2008 Prius with a $32k plug in and cut my fuel bill by half then increase my electric bill I'll never break even. I'm better off with a non-hybrid Civic.

I'll stick with the 2008 as long as I can then see what is available in the future. That price tag just killed my plans.

 

I'd bet after the initial launch they'll decontent the base one down a bit and have a starting price in the upper 20's,maybe w/o nav.

 

You will almost never be better off purely financially by replacing an old car with a new one.

I replaced a 20 mpg Maxima with Leaf - and spend less than 20% on electricity compared to gas. Yet purely financially it is a loss.

But I'm driving a much newer car - and use very little gas - which is hugely rewarding in itself.

 

The 15 mile EV range - is that the expected EPA combined range (like Leaf's 73 miles) or is it the urban cycle range (like Leaf's 100 miles) ?

 

My commute is 16.7 miles each way. The result of my first commute with a PHV last summer was 80.0 MPG. See...



To my surprise, I discovered this where I park this morning...



Sometimes being able to use that and getting quite a bit higher MPG on those days as a result will confuddle everyone. I supspect there will kWh consumption data on the new information screens which makes conveying results with others easy.
.

 

Is this the 'right' chart for my 115 mile Commute?

 

Not quite, as the PHV can get infinite mpg from 0-15, depending on your speed and terrain.

You'd obviously have to figure your true cost for that first 15 miles depending on the cost of electricity in your area. And talk your boss into letting your charge there, it would only be 3kWhr/day, which is lost in the noise for most businesses.

Though it would probably barely change your total for the PHV, as you'd still be using 2 gal for the 15-115 miles.

 

My speed is always 61 MPH, my terrain is always dead flat.

OK what does 87 MPGe mean if it does not mean I am getting the equivalent energy of gasoline at 87 MPG? I am going to pay for that energy somehow.

I have no boss, and no employer, I see various clients on a 5 year rotation. The nearest is a round trip of 90 to 115 miles (either west to Greenville, north to Clarksdale, or northwest to Cleveland, MS) In theory, my longest day is Greenwood MS to Marianna AR, 222 miles round trip.

So no client sees me often enough to have plug in parking for me. (my wife drives 6 blocks to work, so moving is not an option. Divorcing my wife is NOT an option)

 

For a plugin, MPGe is a moving target, as it assumes you drive X miles a day, figures you use zero gas for the first Y miles, then the mpg on liquid fuel for the (X-Y) miles, then computes the equivalent fuel-only cost for those X miles. It's all a mess, as it depends on what X and Y are used.

In your case, Y may or may not be 15, in the case of the PHV, depending on many variables. It would be
($3.50*[(115-Y)/49])+($ elec cost per kWhr*3 for the Y miles).
And you really wouldn't know the Y in your case without testing one for the beginning of your route. Without testing, you'd just have to assume the 15 is "correct" for your case.

 

What are you trying to find out ? The cost of commute or gas usage or emissions or ... ?

BTW, if your work allows you to plug in - you can do that 115 mile commute in Leaf as well. There is someone at MNL who does more than 115 mile commute.

 

Cost I think, it does not interest me that the Volt uses less gas that cost more. I enjoy having low emissions, but my town is about 75% coal fired electricity, so I doubt that will work in my favor.

If I commuted to the same place each day and had an employer, having a recharging station would make some sense. I am at different clients each day and see about 3 clients a day on average, so I might get 3 2 hour charges on 115 volts, in my day, as is. I doubt that will get me home.

6 hours is about 1/3 of a charge? so an additional 25 miles?

 

It seems that many long distance commuters have a misconception that the PHV would not benefit them greatly. Its not about the 15 miles EV range. Its about a larger fully charged battery that's going to provide a blended driving operation for most of that commute at a much higher Mpg average. You could likely average 90-100 mpg for the commute, and once cost-of-charge is factored in, you have the equivalent of 80-something MPG for the whole commute.

Why do so many folks fixate on that 15 mi. advertised ev range, when a knowledgable Prius driver should realize the battery SOC that provides it can also be used over long commutes in a stellar MPG blended mode. And that a longer commute gives more opportunity for regen, and HV charging to sustain that SOC.

A few years ago the knowledgeable Prius owners dreamed of being able to plug-in-charge the std. Prius battery to full SOC, because they knew the wonders that would do for blended operation.
Now Toyota gives us more than we hoped for and everyone forgets all this.
It's not about the 15 miles for a long distance commuter.
You have a choice, use it up for the short commutes, blend it for long commutes.
Either way I see savvy PHV drivers getting darn near 100MPGe.

And for $29.5K after tax deduction (if you qualify) thats awesome.

 

I could never get the point of Plug-in (car not the software). The only people who would benefit from it are the ones who don't spend much on gas to begin with.

Assuming overnight charge and using car daily, there are 365*15= 5475 electric miles a year to drive. At 50MPG it is ~110gal of gas worth ~$385 to save. Electricity assuming 4KWh per charge at 12 cent/KWh would cost 4*365*0.12 = 175$. So you are saving $210 a year or $17.5/mo

I was expecting that the bigger battery with higher charge/discharge rates will improve HV MPG, but it seems not the case.

 

(Some number of you are going to be able to use larger batterys to recover larger potential energys: long downhills, stopping from higher speeds, stop and go traffic, etc. My commuting distance only gains 60 feet in 156 miles, and I never exceed 70 MPH. I have one stop sign in the first 55 miles)

I am not from Missouri, but you are going to have to 'Show me' (For the purposes of this post, assume electricity is free)

I can charge the larger battery with enough range to get me 15 miles. Once it is depleted, my Prius PHV is frugal enough to get me 49 MPG.

I drive 115 miles at an almost constant 61 MPH. 115/(100/49) = 56.35 MPG

Now if I drive blended, you think I will get more than 56.35 MPG over the same 115 miles? Where is the extra energy coming from? I used 100% of the electrical energy available in the first example, how can there be more electrical benefit than 100%?

If you have a 30 mile commute and 15 of them are 'free', yes you will have 98 MPG but as your steady state commute lengthens, the 15 'free' miles of energy will have to have less numerical impact.

(It is not important what my MPG is, what is important is, did I use less energy to go a needed distance? The PHV allows me to convert a sensible 15 miles of that distance to electricity without the 'burdens' of long charge times or (perceived) limited range This will be wonderful for any number of frugal owners who have 'short' commutes or who can harvest potential energy during their commute)

 

Yes, I saw kWh on EV / HV ratio screen in this video.

 

Those that cannot afford Volt will be able to get Prius PHV which is handsomely equipped. On top of that, it will use less electricity and gas than Volt.

 

This is not correct. A larger battery will not magically give much higher mpg. Infact PIP is rated at 49 mpg after the EV mode.

Regen, unless you are driving down from a large mountain, will not generate enough energy to fill even a 1 kwh battery.

My commute involves a drive down a 500 ft hill. That gives me about 250 wh regen, which is good for one mile of driving. Ofcourse, going up that hill I use 3 times that energy.