A 5-seat Toyota Prius Prime is on the way

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Tideland Prius, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    A 5-seat Toyota Prius Prime is on the way - Autoblog
     
  2. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Well good...at least they're taking it seriously versus that excuse of efficiency lol. And where to put the charger? huh? I like where the charger is in the 1st gen PiP, why would it be in the back seat center console, how inconvenient to lug it back and forth!
     
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I suspect if they do improvements on the Prime for the midlife update, they might say "you can have a 5-seater version with the same specs as the current 4-seater or upgrade to the 4-seater and get longer range".

    Although it's unlikely unless the Prime really sells well and has volume. Otherwise, they might just go with one version - 5 seats and just call it a day (improvements offset by extra weight)
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The charger isn't the cord. It's a device that controls the electric flow to the battery coming in through the cord. It doesn't get taken out, unless it is broken.
    The cord stores in the back.

    As to the fifth seat, I would think the model refresh is the earliest we will see it; 2 to 3 years after the Prime's release.
     
  5. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    And fix this too...How is the volt able to pull this off with longer range? Does the gas tank take up that much space?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well a couple of ways

    • 8.9 gal tank vs. 11.3 gal
    • T-shaped bar that compromises passenger space vs. cargo space in the Prius Prime
    • The Volt doesn't need to be designed as a hybrid (vs. the Prime's architecture which is basically a Prius)
    • The Prime's battery is completely under the cargo floor. They didn't make a weird "mitt" shape or L-shaped battery to use the space under the rear seat.

    That's all I can think of without speculating (like engineering and cost issues). For all we know, GM took the expensive route to get better packaging and Toyota took the cheaper route in order to undercut the Volt's price. I know Toyota did mention on one of our Prius Experts trip that they're trying to get the cost for PHEVs down rather than increase the range. Their thinking was that they can get a larger market share if more people buy their product rather than fight with the Volt and Model S for "me-too" attention. Both of those models are purpose-built models while Toyota's offering will be somewhat compromised because they'll be using the Prius as a base so the overall design and structure have to fit both hybrid and PHEV purposes.

    The irony of course is that the Prius was a purpose-built model and that's why it succeeded over the Civic Hybrid in the early 2000s.
     
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  7. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    • But the Volt2 can have a child seat in the middle...
    • "Me-too" looks obvious with a Tesla-esque middle screen.
    • Did they release the pricing yet? Volts are like what...$30k-$34k after a hefty rebate? Is Toyota counting on that or are they setting the base price much lower...In which case, if a Volt is $40k and the Prime goes for $36, could you call that significantly less when after incentives the Volt would be $33k (counting federal only) and the Prime $32k?
    • The Prime's battery is also underneath the backseat too, isn't it?

    Interesting to look at the ioniq as well and its trunk space (only Hybrid shown at the moment).
    The New Ioniq - One Car Three Options | HyundaiUSA

    But what, they're doing a wireless charger also? lol
     
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yes but Toyota is targeting overall efficiency. They have other cars to sell if you have other priorities (like passenger comfort - TCH, cargo and all-weather capability - R4h, bigger Prius - Prius v).

    Every choice they've made is to ensure C-D mpg is the same as Gen 4. The decision to NOT offer 17" alloys, the decision to forego the 5th seat to reduce the need to add extra structural reinforcement to carry that extra passenger, the decision on the size of the battery (although I suspect they had to at least double it). Also, they wanted to reduce cost so that more people can purchase PHEVs and help push the ball along.

    Sure if you wanted a Prius Prime that cost the same as a Volt, they can spend money redesigning the back third of the Prius to fit a bigger battery but that'll upset the handling (or cost more time need to invest in tweaking the suspension), add extra weight (the Volt 2.0 is 180 lbs heavier than the Prime).
     
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  9. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    This comparison is somewhat unfair because the Prime's rear hatch opens to the bumper and the Volt's is several inches higher. It makes the floor rise more obvious in the Prime. It would be easier to load the Prime, that is probably what Toyota was thinking when they made it open that low. But for people familiar with the Prius, all they see is the lost inch or two of cargo space.

    What are the respective cargo volumes?
     
  10. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    It almost feels like the Prius 2 Eco versus the other gen 4 Prius's. How's that Eco selling? Pretty poorly compared to the rest right? I see the same happening to a 4-seater Prius Prime. If they are going to offer two versions of the Prime, they need to do it right off the bat, otherwise they risk losing potential sales to those who decide that the Prime won't work for them and buy something else.
    Volt starts at $34k, minus $7500 federal tax credit (and $1500 tax rebate in California). That's $25k in CA ($26.5k in states with no state rebate). The Prius Prime is going to receive about $4200 federal tax credit. To be equal in post tax price, the Prime would need to start at roughly $30.7k (but we know it won't include that huge Tesla-like screen in the base price).
    The picture makes it look a lot smaller (at least compared to what I'm used to with the PiP). Maybe in person it's actually not so bad, but if it really was only an inch or two you would think they would find a way get rid of the extra inch or two.
     
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  11. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    So one has a higher bumper and the other doesn't. But the hatch will go down and meet with the frame...it looks like the Volt offers more space for sure...
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Also, the Volt still has the more compact torsion beam rear suspension. The Prius has a double wishbone suspension which does take up more space (just compare the width of the Gen 4 to the width of the Gen 3 at the narrowest point. For me, it's a compromise I'm willing to accept if it means a more sophisticated ride (more comfortable, less jolts transmitted through the seat and no rear suspension hops over potholes/expansion joints/railway tracks while making a turn or if they cross the road at 45°)
     
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  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Cargo capacity is listed at 10.6 cu. ft. for the Volt. I suspect the Prime will be similar. The difference of course is that the Volt is more cubic and the Prime is more like a cuboid. The Volt is better for standing luggage up and the Prime is better for laying them down on their sides.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Volt starts a little over $34k with delivery and before federal incentives. With the full $7500 federal credit, it is around $26k.

    If the Prime is priced around the PiP's, the two cars will be around the same price with the federal incentive. The Prime's battery is all in the back; the charger sits under the rear center armrest.
    No official numbers form Toyota yet. Eyeballs are guessing they have about the same space measuring up to the rear seat backs. Then it can get funky depending on how they measure past that.

    The Prime's rear hatch opens lower because that is where it opens on the gen4. The two cars' share the same "bones". The surface sheet metal can have more variances, but keeping the under layers similar, if not the same, keeps development costs down. For example, moving the hatch lip up so it was level with the cargo floor would involve changes to the rear end and bumper, which means more work in rear impact studies and modeling.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ah, next ten prius a few years? aren't we talking 6 years?

    give me 16 miles and a full hatch, and they'll have their first sale. i'm already over the 5th seat.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The EPA value for the Volt cargo is 19 cu.ft., which is presumably to the ceiling.
     
  17. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    I'll take the Prime opening before the Volt's anyday. In the Prime, heavy objects can be slid out to where you can better handle them. In the Volt, you'd have to reach in and lift. That's okay for a youngin', but my old back wouldn't be able to lift a grocery bag out of that thing. Although maybe the Volt could be wired to double as a TENS unit and treat those spasms????
     
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  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Oh good (cause I was just using the number off GM.com). Then the Prime is bigger. It's expected to be rated at 19.75 cu. ft.

    Yeah each design has their benefits. The Volt is like a trunk in a sedan - it has depth and some people like it because stuff doesn't roll out. However, for ease of loading/unloading, a low flat floor is preferred. That's where the Prius typically excels.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Keep in mind that the EPA does not believe in decimals; the Volt could be 19.49 cu.ft.

    Fueleconomy.gov lists 27 cu.ft. for the 2016 Prius, which is the same for both the regular one and the Eco trim. So this is the volume of the car with the sunken floor cargo area. Which means the Prime loses 7 cu.ft. compared to the Eco. What is it compared to the others, 4 or 5 cubic feet then?

    In my experience, hatchbacks and wagons have floors near level to the hatch lip. Trunks could too with a false floor, but there is less space to divide up that way. I'm guessing the Volt skipped the false floor in light of its hatch being near sedanish in profile.
     
  20. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Anyone see this? Wow, does Toyota really read these forums!? 2018 Toyota Prius Prime Will Have One Extra Spot – Motoringcrunch

    So now I can save up for my 2018 Prime haha...with Solar maybe? Boy would that be perfect.

    By then I would have test driven the Tesla Model 3, Bolt, Ioniq (all 3 maybe) - hear about the next Energi line and see the next Leaf.

    Exciting times!

    But of course the article is also misleading with the headline...Because it says at the end that there's no known date when a 5-seater would be released lol.
     
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