A LITTLE GUN HISTORY!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Aug 14 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]495512[/snapback]</div>

I don't know about the rest of it, but Snopes has a page dedicated to the Australia "statistics."

EDIT: More info

Actually, the source of the above post is a year ~2000 radio broadcast by Paul Harvey. Not someone I would consider a bastion of accuracy.

 

To me, gun control means using both hands.

Seriously, the 2nd Amendment is really the one that allows the others to exist.

 

Marilyn Monroe sang 'happy birthday' to JFK.

Later, he was assassinated.

This proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the link between movie stars singing to American Presidents, and attempts made on their lives.

Doesn't it...?

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Giving more people guns doesn't seem like a way to decrease violence...any more than does sending heavily armed troops to the Middle East in the name of "peace."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]495552[/snapback]</div>

Oh no. Just totally misleading. From Snopes, "it should be noted that the Australia-wide percentage of homicides committed with firearms is now lower than it was before the gun buy-back program, and lower than it has been at any point during the past ten years."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Aug 14 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]495526[/snapback]</div>

That is an excellent link!

It would be good to point out that Australians can still own firearms, the ban and buy-back program only covered "self-loading" rifles and shotguns. (semi-automatic, lever-action and pump-action firearms) The 1996 law did not effect handguns at all.

Non-self-loading long-guns are available to Australians who are at least 18 years of age, have no police record and who pass a shooters license test.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 14 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]495555[/snapback]</div>

Funny, but states with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

 

Question: what constitutes "gun control" in all of those different countries? buy-back programs? Limits on what type of gun you can obtain (piston, shot gun, rifle, semi-auto, auto, etc)? a waiting period? Regulations regarding background checks?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 14 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]495555[/snapback]</div>

Funny, but states with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]495564[/snapback]</div>

I would love for you to prove that with some numbers. For example, the state of Florida was the first state to pass shall-issue concelled carry in 1987. Please shown me a continuous decrease in murder, rape, and robberies year after year from 1988 to 2006. After almost 20 years they should be pretty close to 0!

Just a hint, the numbers don't back up your claim.

Murders have steadily decreased
Rapes steadily increased from 6,302 in 1987 to a peak of 7,599 in 1997
Robberies have been all over the place but went from 42,822 in 1987 to a peak of 53,928 in 1990
Assaults have gone up from 72,896 in 1987 to a peak of 107,479 in 1993

That's just one state, 37 states are shall-issue though so I'm sure you can find one that fits your claim.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/

 

Personally, I feel much safer here in Australia - anywhere in Australia - than in some places in the US, and I travel to the US several times each year. Our gun control is, as the Snoopes article states, is not a complete ban on guns, just trying to place some rules around the whole exercise. We have never had a wholesale ownership of guns - most people did not own guns before the buyback, and still do not.

Basically, the new rules are that you have to show reason to own a firearm - either a farmer to control pests, or as a member of a rifle or pistol club. We also made it a little more difficult to purchase a firearm. The whole exercise came about because of the mass shooting at Port Arthur in Tasmania by a deranged man. Before then, we had other examples, but not as many killed, of this type of shooting. Since then, not one.

Now, nearly everyone I talk to in Australia after the news of yet another mass killing in a school in the US states that they are very glad we do have gun control.

Please also note - we have a gun CONTROL, not a complete ban.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 14 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]495597[/snapback]</div>

My statistics were courtesy of John R. Lott Jr., Ph.D's book, More Guns, Less Crime. He also followed it up in his paper, "Confirming More Guns, Less Crime" which is available for download at: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAu...fm?per_id=16317

 

Guns don't kill people...violent Americans do.

The problem is with us and our proclivity for violence. It has NOTHING to do with whether we've the right to carry a weapon or not.

I'd suggest that the more someone wishes to have the "right" to carry a gun, the more strongly they should be *prohibited* from doing so.

Funny how the most aggressive people here on PC also feel the most fear of violent crime. What are y'all afraid of?

Geez, I'm a weak little flippy-flopping liberal from California...and *I'm* not afraid!

Yet all of the he-man, meat eating, truck driving, "lets turn Iraq into a pile of glass" folks here have their tails between their legs.

Here's some advice for you: try not to shame yourselves in terror.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AussieOwner @ Aug 15 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]495605[/snapback]</div>

Aren't your laws like ours in NZ? We licence firearms owners, not the firearms themselves.
If you take a course and your firearms storage passes inspection, you can have a licence.
If you have a licence, you can own a firearm (or lots of them).

PS -- our cops still don't carry firearms, do yours in NSW?

 

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but here goes.

The way I understand the second ammendment is, the State / Governor has the right to maintain a well armed and regulated militia. The states right is then extended to the residents of that state. Basically I understand this as a right to proteccct ourselvvves from the fedz if they go off the deep end.

Maybe there is no individual right to carry and posess firearms, but gunowners are part of a well regulated militia.

I know I could have looked up these facts, but if I'm wrong, someone will point it out. Thanks in advance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KD6HDX @ Aug 14 2007, 07:05 PM) [snapback]495712[/snapback]</div>

Gosh, you're welcome; glad I can be of assistance.

So, when they come at me with A-10's, I can 'protect myself from the Feds' with...what? My little .22 that I carry around in my handbag?!?

Okaaaaaayyyyyy...

Unless I can have my very own A-10, I'm not feeling it.

And, regarding violent crime prevention, there's NO WAY I want pistol packin' Billy Bob Melvin in his monster truck deciding whether he's feeling he's been wronged by a California Liberal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]495566[/snapback]</div>

So you're saying that if we let people carry guns for 50 years, these crimes will cease entirely? That's what you're claiming, based upon these stats.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 14 2007, 05:29 PM) [snapback]495731[/snapback]</div>

Not just cease entirely, but after 50 years crime will decrease past the zero point and go negative: murdered people will come back to life, stolen property will be returned, arson burned buildings will arise whole from the ashes. Ain't statistics grand?

MB

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 14 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]495563[/snapback]</div>

Funny. Just like we do for cars. Nobody seems to complain about that.