A new direction?

MarinJohn · Nov 4, 2006

Now that the republicans are in real electoral trouble they have taken to recycling an old tactic. It must be in the latest 'talking points' to ask "What would democrats do with the mess in Iraq". Interesting. They rule all sectors of government, give their 'leader' exactly everything he wants, but are forced to ask the opposing party what they should do to get out of their mess. AS IF!! That is, as if anyone worth their salt would come to republican's rescue just before an election.

Democrats do not owe an answer to that question, and should not respond till after the election, unless they have a magic pill which would eliminate all further harm to our troops. There is no such pill. The only response should be 'you broke it, you fix it, you pay the price for your arrogance, alone'. ie: get voted out of power.

To begin with, any 'fix' the dem's might have, if presented would only be usurped as a republican 'fix', leaving dems with the remedy, but not the credit. Next, it's time republicans stop acting like a child who does something bad then runs to mommy to cling to her skirt for protection. Certainly, if things had gone swimmingly in Iraq, republicans would have claimed full credit while rubbing dem's nose in the dirt. Now the repubs get to eat dirt.

Now, if this were a bipartisan congress which made bipartisan decisions, naturally, this thread would not exist. Not the case. Before you rip me to shreds, pointing out that this is 'our' country, problem, etc. let me remind you that during President Clinton's reign, it was at that time 'our' country too, with a duly elected president and repubs spent unlimited time and tax payer's money trying to ruin a sitting president (to no avail). Through it all, with an opposing party in the congress, Clinton dealt daily with slander and ruin at every turn and STILL managed to leave the country better than when he came into office. Poor inferior junior would have collapsed under such weight. Instead, just like the rest of his life he gets his 'stuff' handed to him on a silver platter, but can't seem to make it shine.

On Tuesday, you're goin' down. You're goin' down big! And all you have to blame is yourselves. The shafting you handed to Clinton for 8 years is coming home to roost. Bend over, quit whining, and take it like a man!

Now, after the rape at the polls where you will be left in a crumpled heap, you will have choices. You can continue to try harder to 'get yours' at the expense of the rest of the nation, or you can do a 180 degree about face and lead the country in a new era of bipartisan cooperation and goodwill. Your choice. More of the same, or a new direction by a rebuked party. I wish I had more faith in the direction I know you will choose.

daronspicher · Nov 4, 2006

I don't know if it will work for the reps...

but it's a great strategy for the reps... probably one the demo's didn't want to see happen because it's challenging the voter to exercise a 10 second thought cycle to ask... What is the Dem's plan?

They don't have one....

And, maybe it will win an election for the repubs again.

Maybe not...

Do ya think the democrats should reevaluate the party if they can't get control of at least the house or the senate?

Maybe we're all freaks and the public doesn't want us running the show... even in the face of the ongoing war that the other guys have going on.... that we all voted for... before we voted against...

EricGo · Nov 4, 2006

Post election to-do list:

Remove any legal doubt: The US is NOT in a state of war with "terror," and the executive has no extended powers that go along with that war status.
Get out of Iraq
Impeach and send to trial the chimp and cheney
Repeal the torture law
Balance the budget
Strike down Medicare Part D
Join the international community in a fossil fuel trading market, with global emissions decreasing 5% annualy.
Remove *all* subsidies to fossil fuels, effective immediately

Jeannie · Nov 4, 2006

Just remember that the winners in Tuesday's election who are not already incumbents don't take office until January.

MarinJohn · Nov 4, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Nov 4 2006, 12:31 PM) [snapback]343838[/snapback]</div>

Do ya think the democrats should reevaluate the party if they can't get control of at least the house or the senate?

Maybe we're all freaks and the public doesn't want us running the show... even in the face of the ongoing war that the other guys have going on.... that we all voted for... before we voted against...
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Reevaluate? Absolutely, always, win or lose. Both parties. (Lets assume one can recognize a distinction in parties at all.)

In theory (take a big gulp here), political parties exist to represent a segment of 'civilization'. Civilization is usually in a state of flux. A static party/philosophy representing a 'state of flux' would seem to be an oxymoron.

You state/assume "the ongoing war that the other guys have going on.... that we all voted for... before we voted against..."

Need I remind you that there were organized ongoing mass protests nationwide/worldwide before diplomatic ties to Iraq were cut off? A large segment of the population volunteered many a weekend doing our civic duty by speaking loud and clear our feelings about ending diplomacy and beginning war. Some of the frighteningly little resistance against the president's intent to go to war by congress was made by CA officials. The rest took advice tailored to lead to war as gospel, and signed on. Fools all, for trusting their commander in chief, and may their constituents register their feelings accordingly.

It seems easy and reasonable enough for the president to say something like 'no matter how, we're here, and lets move on'. One must wonder if by embracing that thought, one is nothing more than a patsy, or if one could then be labeled 'complicit' in the underhanded (and I believe, predetermined) way we were led on such a path to begin with. It's kinda like, you dig your own grave, but expect me to lay in it. This attitude, or line of thinking, sets a poor precedent and I will resist.

True, eventually, we will move on. But I knowingly follow no mortal down a path so obviously wrong, and then can be relied on to guide him back to safety. How could I? I never went down the path so am not there to guide him back. However, I do trust that eventually my compadre will see the light, and when he returns in the proper direction , I will recognize him coming and offer my guidance and support, usually through noisy public demonstrations, and hope he takes me more seriously in the future.

Wildkow · Nov 4, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Nov 4 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]343825[/snapback]</div>

Now that the republicans are in real electoral trouble they have taken to recycling an old tactic. It must be in the latest 'talking points' to ask "What would democrats do with the mess in Iraq". Interesting. They rule all sectors of government, give their 'leader' exactly everything he wants, but are forced to ask the opposing party what they should do to get out of their mess. AS IF!! That is, as if anyone worth their salt would come to republican's rescue just before an election.

Democrats do not owe an answer to that question, and should not respond till after the election, unless they have a magic pill which would eliminate all further harm to our troops. There is no such pill. The only response should be 'you broke it, you fix it, you pay the price for your arrogance, alone'. ie: get voted out of power.

To begin with, any 'fix' the dem's might have, if presented would only be usurped as a republican 'fix', leaving dems with the remedy, but not the credit. Next, it's time republicans stop acting like a child who does something bad then runs to mommy to cling to her skirt for protection. Certainly, if things had gone swimmingly in Iraq, republicans would have claimed full credit while rubbing dem's nose in the dirt. Now the repubs get to eat dirt.

Now, if this were a bipartisan congress which made bipartisan decisions, naturally, this thread would not exist. Not the case. Before you rip me to shreds, pointing out that this is 'our' country, problem, etc. let me remind you that during President Clinton's reign, it was at that time 'our' country too, with a duly elected president and repubs spent unlimited time and tax payer's money trying to ruin a sitting president (to no avail). Through it all, with an opposing party in the congress, Clinton dealt daily with slander and ruin at every turn and STILL managed to leave the country better than when he came into office. Poor inferior junior would have collapsed under such weight. Instead, just like the rest of his life he gets his 'stuff' handed to him on a silver platter, but can't seem to make it shine.

On Tuesday, you're goin' down. You're goin' down big! And all you have to blame is yourselves. The shafting you handed to Clinton for 8 years is coming home to roost. Bend over, quit whining, and take it like a man!

Now, after the rape at the polls where you will be left in a crumpled heap, you will have choices. You can continue to try harder to 'get yours' at the expense of the rest of the nation, or you can do a 180 degree about face and lead the country in a new era of bipartisan cooperation and goodwill. Your choice. More of the same, or a new direction by a rebuked party. I wish I had more faith in the direction I know you will choose.
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The good guys will retain both houses of congress at the worst they may lose the Senate. It will not be a rape or a drubbing. Pride goeth before the fall.

Wildow

daniel · Nov 4, 2006

It's awfully risky to predict the outsome of an election. A lot like betting on a crap game. It's a lot safer to predict that after the election it will be business as usual, as the corporations continue to rake in the bucks at the expense of working folks and consumers.

Wildkow · Nov 5, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 4 2006, 03:38 PM) [snapback]343912[/snapback]</div>

It's awfully risky to predict the outsome of an election. A lot like betting on a crap game. It's a lot safer to predict that after the election it will be business as usual, as the corporations continue to rake in the bucks at the expense of working folks and consumers.
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Do you know a better way? I generally say "business as usual" a different way "the more things change the more they stay the same" all parties move back to the center after the election.

Wildkow

Schmika · Nov 6, 2006

I have to admit, if the Republicans get the predicted drubbing...I will be a bit down for awhile.

Stev0 · Nov 6, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Nov 6 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]344818[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit, if the Republicans get the predicted drubbing...I will be a bit down for awhile.
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I'll be getting down, too... and boogieing.

daniel · Nov 7, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Nov 6 2006, 07:45 PM) [snapback]344818[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit, if the Republicans get the predicted drubbing...I will be a bit down for awhile.
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Don't worry. The Democrats won't do anything very much different than the Republicans. Of course, if they gain one house, there'll more hot air rising from D.C. as the two parties argue about pointless differences, while continuing to shaft the country, the public, and the world, as they always do.

hycamguy07 · Nov 7, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 4 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]343912[/snapback]</div>

the corporations continue to rake in the bucks at the expense of working folks and consumers.
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Do you realize that Bush ,will have amassed a $ 9 Trillion debt by the end of his 2nd term?This is money borrowed from the Chinese and Japanese.
Compare that to Clintons surplus.
Where did the money go ?Mostly to tax cuts for the richest.
Every American will owe the equivalent of 3 years additional taxes.But that debt will be inherited by our grandchildren(plus interest)Severely reducing their quality of life.
The most important thing the Democrats will change, will be to roll back the tax cuts for the rich.[/b]
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I think you've got to be kidding yourself if you really think the Dems are not looking out for big business...
That sounds like a party funding loss when needed.

Again both parties are crooks/liars in one way or another, we just choose the lesser evil of the two for office
and hope for the best.

The corporations are going to continue to rake in the bucks or fold thus causing more unemployment..
Seems thats the nature of the beast to turn a profit (the american way) so they make thier money. If thier not going to make any money why work?

I owned my own business for a while I made my prices 20 dollars over cost I didnt make a real profite to live on so I gave it up..

Another Example: I wanted a driveway, I take all the mesurments for total square footage. I call the drive way companies give them the square footage and ask for a high ball park price?

They give me prices ranging from: concrete $ 20k , Asphalt $17k , Brick pavers $29k, gravel/loose rock $1,600. Now the estimator comes out to the home to take the same mesurments and they give me the following prices: concrete $ 29k, Asphalt $ 20k, Brick pavers $ refi the house, Gravel/loose rock $8k..

I live in a nice neighborhood and in a nice looking old house I figure they see the house & property and think I have money. Thus the price goes WAY UP . I then settle for R/R ties and free mulch...... while thumbing my nose at the persons that tried to rip me off...

mojo · Nov 7, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 7 2006, 01:01 AM) [snapback]344856[/snapback]</div>

Don't worry. The Democrats won't do anything very much different than the Republicans. Of course, if they gain one house, there'll more hot air rising from D.C. as the two parties argue about pointless differences, while continuing to shaft the country, the public, and the world, as they always do.
[/b]
Click to expand...

Do you realize that Bush ,will have amassed a $ 9 Trillion debt by the end of his 2nd term?This is money borrowed from the Chinese and Japanese.
Compare that to Clintons surplus.
Where did the money go ?Mostly to tax cuts for the richest.
Every American will owe the equivalent of 3 years additional taxes.But that debt will be inherited by our grandchildren(plus interest)Severely reducing their quality of life.
The most important thing the Democrats will change, will be to roll back the tax cuts for the rich.

Godiva · Nov 7, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 4 2006, 03:35 PM) [snapback]343862[/snapback]</div>

Post election to-do list:

Remove any legal doubt: The US is NOT in a state of war with "terror," and the executive has no extended powers that go along with that war status.
Get out of Iraq
Impeach and send to trial the chimp and cheney
Repeal the torture law
Balance the budget
Strike down Medicare Part D
Join the international community in a fossil fuel trading market, with global emissions decreasing 5% annualy.
Remove *all* subsidies to fossil fuels, effective immediately
[/b]
Click to expand...

Reverse/revoke the weakening of the EPA.

While you're at it, better review bankruptcy too.

And the permanent tax breaks for the uberwealthy need to go as well.

daniel · Nov 7, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Nov 7 2006, 09:30 AM) [snapback]345057[/snapback]</div>

I think you've got to be kidding yourself if you really think the Dems are not looking out for big business...
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Have you read anything I've written??? :angry: Even in the line you quote I said that regardless of the outcome of the election nothing will change. I have said over and over again that both parties are in the pockets of big business.

You can disagree with anything I write. That's what FHOP is all about. But when you so utterly and completely misunderstand the simplest statements, I have to wonder if you are intentionally misrepresenting me. And if you are, that's downright dishonest.

hycamguy07 · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 7 2006, 10:31 PM) [snapback]345257[/snapback]</div>

Have you read anything I've written??? :angry: Even in the line you quote I said that regardless of the outcome of the election nothing will change. I have said over and over again that both parties are in the pockets of big business.

You can disagree with anything I write. That's what FHOP is all about. But when you so utterly and completely misunderstand the simplest statements, I have to wonder if you are intentionally misrepresenting me. And if you are, that's downright dishonest.
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Yes, I have read most of what you have written in FHOP and agree with 85% of it..

daniel · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Nov 8 2006, 03:05 AM) [snapback]345360[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I have read most of what you have written in FHOP and agree with 85% of it..
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Then how can you accuse me of suggesting that the Dems are not in the pockets of big business?

MarinJohn · Nov 8, 2006

It's a new day with only half a new congress at this point. Let's discuss.
If dem's only get one house they will have no choice but to act like the opposition party. Gridlock, hearings, impeachment and all that fun spectator-sport stuff.

However, if they also get the senate and thereby control both houses of congress then the game changes considerably. Dems can then pass bills in keeping with their game of encouraging another sweep in 2 years. Oh, anything too radical will be vetoed by junior, but the bills will have been researched and written and can be resurrected and passed during the first 100 days of Hillary's presidency.

I actually see an advantage to republicans if dems get both houses. Bills can be written and passed and when junior signs them into law, repubs can claim victory as NOT a do-nothing congress. Junior can work closely with dems, get bills to his desk which he could in good conscience sign, and be on the road to a powerful last 2 years which could re-define his failed presidency.

Pinto Girl · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 7 2006, 01:01 AM) [snapback]344856[/snapback]</div>

Don't worry. The Democrats won't do anything very much different than the Republicans. Of course, if they gain one house, there'll more hot air rising from D.C. as the two parties argue about pointless differences, while continuing to shaft the country, the public, and the world, as they always do.
[/b]
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Yes, I agree. What's ironic is, really nothing changes except who is going to blame whom for what.

We, as individuals, need to begin demanding cohesive actions from our Government which address the *real* problems at hand.

It's so funny...like we Americans are on the same boat, but we keep paddling against each other. The only thing that anyone worries about is if we're spinning in clockwise or counterclockwise circles, when the real issue is navigating us away from the waterfall up ahead.

hycamguy07 · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 8 2006, 10:12 AM) [snapback]345447[/snapback]</div>

Then how can you accuse me of suggesting that the Dems are not in the pockets of big business?
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I was adding my 2 cents It was not directed to you I simply was adding to your thought. & replying to another post at the same time however the other quote didnt come through.. :angry:

A new direction?

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