a new document for Prius... PSD

two have to move, if the car is stationary the ICE and MG1 can rotate or MG1 and MG2 can rotate or all three can rotate. Two have to move or all have to be stopped. MG1 rotates forward or backwards depending on what the other two components are doing. The ICE can only rotate one way. MG2 can rotate either way as well but if one component of a planetary is moving one of the other or both have to move.

 

John, you correctly identified the power sources in the text, but you interchanged ICE and MG2 in the diagram.

To add to Frank's comment, and potentially part with the SIMPLE directive, either MG1 or MG2 can add rotational velocity to the ICE.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xevious\";p=\"76167)</div>

You beat me to it, xevious, in catching the ICE and MG2 switch in the diagram,haha. But I do question on your comment about MG1 OR MG2 adding velocity to the ICE. MG1 doesn't actually do any driving,it powers MG2 when ICE needs the added help.

Driving modes:
1. ICE drives the wheels
2. ICE and MG2 drive the wheels. ICE is also spinning MG1 which is generating electrical energy for MG2
3. ICE and MG2 driving the wheels. MG2 is using electrical energy from MG1 and also from the HV battery
4. MG2 is driving wheels with electrical energy from the HV battery. ICE is not driving the wheels in this mode but may or may not be running depending on various parameters

If this is what you meant, sorry if I misunderstood your description. I aquired this info from the 04 NCF, pages TH-2 thru TH-16 if anybody would like to study it, 8)

 

Oh and John, I think the PSD you are working on is going to be a big help for those new to the Prius and wanting to more about the workings of such a technical wonder.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr\";p=\"76204)</div>

Hi Rick. I guess if you think deep into it,anything can be possible. Maybe Toyota docs don't talk about it because they don't make it work that way, :roll: Just found Graham's website and bookmarked it ( have already marked John's site ). Will read over the workings later when I have some more time. Lots of math, oh goody :lol:

 

MG1 is a permanent magnet generator, capable of generating while rotating either direction. (if you insert this into the diagram I think people will have an easier time grasping the function of the "generator statement) (this part for the more technically competent) The magnetic lines of flux cut thru the windings going either way and because the output is 3 phase AC, positive and negative are irrelevant as it's constantly changing.

 

John,

I agree with K.I.S.S., but sometimes too simplistic can confuse.

A newbie may look at the diagram and say, “I see the motors and engine, so I know where the power comes from . . . but where does the power go? Which of these components supplies power to the wheels?â€

Without that information in the diagram, it’s just a bunch of spinning stuff.

 

If you do the math, the "heretical mode" much discussed back in the day on the Yahoo group makes sense. At highway speeds, little torque is required to maintain forward velocity. Therefore, little power applied to MG1 (spinning opposite the ICE) has a much greater effect on the rotational velocity of the drive train.

In other words, at highway speeds, there is an energetic and mechanical advantage in using ICE+MG1 rather than ICE+MG2. This part is simple.

The "heretical" part comes in because the electrical energy for MG1 has to come from somewhere. In this case, instead of MG1 creating slight drag to power MG2, the reverse happens. This is not nearly as "heretical" as it sounds.

None of this means that the Prius actually operates in this fashion, but neither does the absence of such documentation from Toyota negate the possibility. However, if memory serves, data obtained from Graham's scanners seemed to support the "heretical" theory.

But back to John's project... good work, and keep it up!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a\";p=\"76203)</div>

It is not an easy thing to do (or even to attempt). Kudos to you for taking on the challenge!

 

I have to agree with Jeff above, I work in the forklift industry and were also a dealer for Ottawa Yard Tractors. Planetary gear sets are used in both of these and when asked by people who service them on an almost daily basis, to explain the PSD in a Prius most still don't get it. I walk them over to a planetary and lay it out for them and they finally get it|I think they do. Some still come back after a while and question me again on certain aspects of how the ICE starts etc. If you could only find a plastic planetary it would be a lot easier. One page black and white document.......I think you have your work cut out.

 

I have seen the "invisible" V8 model engine, and the "invisible" wankel rotary engine, maybe we need an "Invisible" THD. It could have 2 variable power supplies for the motors to run at various speeds, perhaps a third to emulate the ICE.

 

This may be splitting hairs, but for the sake of clarity I would change the order of the labels in the diagram on the top of the page. You have three components, (Sun, Planetary and Ring) going from inside out, and you have them labled in the order of Sun, Ring and Planetary. Keeping the labels in the same order might make it just a smidgen less confusing.

- Bill

 

That would be awesome. It would help me out.

 

I noticed that too, and almost commented about that.