1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

About the Fog Light issue:

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by SparrowHawk60, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. SparrowHawk60

    SparrowHawk60 Happy to be green!

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    411
    0
    0
    Location:
    Town of Newburgh, NY, U.S.of A.
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    On the topic of Fog Lights. Seems there are a few among the posters here that want to jump on a band wagon and respond to any question on the topic with "Their illegal"!
    No they are not! I have yet to see anything where the installation of fog lights are illegal. Yes, they may have to meet certain high and mounting restrictions but they can still be installed. Their use maybe prohibited or restricted in some locals and here is where the problems start to come about.
    In fact in Virginia, quote from VA V+T law:
    § 46.2-1020. Other permissible lights. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with fog lights, not more than two of which can be illuminated at any time, one or two auxiliary driving lights if so equipped by the manufacturer, two daytime running lights, two side lights of not more than six candlepower, an interior light or lights of not more than 15 candlepower each, and signal lights.
    Washington State, quote from V+T law:
    (2) Fog lamps. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two fog lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than twelve inches nor more than thirty inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands and so aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall at a distance of twenty-five feet ahead project higher than a level of four inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes. Lighted fog lamps meeting the above requirements may be used with lower head lamp beams as specified in RCW 46.37.220.

    Would a manufacture put thousands of fog lights on cars, knowing there installation was illegal? Would a dealer sell a new car, knowing that in his/her state they are illegal? I highly doubt it, think of the law suits this would one up. (And Fog lights have been a dealer item for years!)
    First off the Federal Law, dictates what lights maybe used on vehicles, other wise know as the DOT. Best bet is if there is no DOT number on the light itself or you can't find where this light is approved by the DOT, it's not a good idea to mount it to your car.
    "You can't use them with out your headlights being on!"
    Say's who, what state, what law? Quote it please if you can find it.
    This is a common sense issue, if the driving conditions are bad enough to need fog lights, chances are you need your headlights as well. Don't forget that having your headlights on means all the other lights on your car will be on as well.
    Can't tell you the number of people that drive around in bad weather or dawn or dusk with just their Daytime Running Lights on! Duh! What about the back end of the car?
    Yes, you can only use your fog lights on the low beam setting. Again common sense if you need your high beams the fog lights aren't going to help. (Don't confuse fog lights with driving lights, two different things!)
    Still haven't found a Law that specifies this. May come anti-dazzle clauses. "New York now has a law that requires dimming auxiliary lights along with high beams in the presence of other traffic. Other states may soon have similar laws. Anti-Glare law, goes into effect 01 Aug 08."
    I haven't seen it in print yet.
    Well, if you think they maybe illegal then don't use them.
    If you're gonna say they're illegal then please post the state laws you are referring to.
    Here's a link to state by state modification laws: http://public.findlaw.com/traffic-ticket-violation-law/traffic-ticket-a-z/unlawful-modification-laws.html
     
  2. Rich96c4ce

    Rich96c4ce New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    55
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius

    P.S. Here is a link to a motor vehicle code, that is surely to make Prius owners interested in "pulsing", comment. This happens to be from Utah, but other states have similar laws.

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE41/htm/41_04221.htm 41-6a-1709. Coasting prohibited.
    (1) The operator of a motor vehicle, when traveling on a downgrade, may not coast with the gears or transmission of the vehicle in neutral.
    (2) The operator of a truck or bus, when traveling on a downgrade, may not coast with the clutch disengaged.
     
  3. subarutoo

    subarutoo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    1,213
    23
    0
    Location:
    Chatsworth, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Very colorful post. Is posting in colors kinda like posting in ALL CAPS, like you are shouting at someone? Just wondering ...:D
     
  4. SparrowHawk60

    SparrowHawk60 Happy to be green!

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    411
    0
    0
    Location:
    Town of Newburgh, NY, U.S.of A.
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Yup, I'm sure the laws get more and more confusing as you look up each state's.
    I know Virginia had some pretty tough regulations covering motor vehicles. Bumper height, lights etc. that's why I used VA as an example.
    I was not one bit surprised to learn that California has fog light laws on the books. This is one of the toughest states when it comes to Motor Vehicles, especially when it comes to modifications!

    "...Fog lamps are not specifically allowed nor prohibited under federal law, however, if fog lamps are installed, there is a specific dimensional/intensity relationship that fog lamps and direction indicator lamps must have. Because fog lamps are not specifically regulated by federal law, they may be regulated by state law. Most states regulate them in various ways..."

    Yup, one reason why manufactures can put them on Vehicles and mount them where ever they want. Look at the light bar on some Jeep Liberty's! I've seen a knucklehead rideing on a public road with all of these lights blaring away!

    There are some more strange laws that few know about, here's a few I found out.
    In Rhode Island, you don't need insurance to drive you car. However you do in other states, so it is an offence to drive out of state with no insurance. You can't have any rust on the vehicle that constitutes a hole, this is to prevent exhaust gas from entering the car or so they claim. But you can for example put duct tape over the hole and pass inspection!
    A blinking GREEN light means you have to yield to pedestrians.
    Some states don't require front licence plates, for example Florida. But if you drive without a front plate in NY, you are subject to a possible ticket.
    You cannot have any type of novelty plate attached to your NYS plate. (It has to be mounted separately.) You can't have any type of frame around your plate, yeah the ones from the dealer is no good! Display of any kind of plate either current or past issue is no good. They can ticket you for dual registration, failure to dispose of plates properly.
    Watch out in Alabama: Section 32-5-11 Throwing or shooting deadly or dangerous missile into occupied vehicle. Whoever willfully throws or shoots a rock, stone, brick or piece of iron, steel or other like metal, or any deadly or dangerous missile or fire bomb, into a motor vehicle that is occupied by one or more persons is guilty of a felony and upon conviction shall be imprisoned for not less than one year and a day and shall be fined not less than $500.00.
     
  5. SparrowHawk60

    SparrowHawk60 Happy to be green!

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    411
    0
    0
    Location:
    Town of Newburgh, NY, U.S.of A.
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius

    NAAAA, I think Rich was using diffrent colors to quote me and then respond to the quote.. Of course I could be mistaken, but I didn't take it as shouting.
    Rich, please tell us you weren't shouting.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I believe Rich was the author of the federal code relating to headlamp use, so he has some idea about the topic.

    Tom
     
  7. davidtm

    davidtm Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    180
    54
    0
    Location:
    TJ'ville
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Naw, he wasn't shouting, just using colorful language!

    :D :D :D
     
  8. N3FOL

    N3FOL Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    891
    16
    0
    Location:
    Stewartstown, PA.
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    You can have as much lights as you want.:D

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Rich96c4ce

    Rich96c4ce New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    55
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    How would you distinguish between the quoted text and the my inserted text?
    If I wanted to shout, I would have used colored, allcaps text.
     
  10. Rich96c4ce

    Rich96c4ce New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    55
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    And don't forget shooting other things at drivers, like The Bird. I believe that is illegal in Maryland and some other states. I know the fine in Germany for that is really severe, although I don't think that it is amputation:eek:.
     
  11. Rich96c4ce

    Rich96c4ce New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    55
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    This photo really gets around. I had seen it in emails sent to me at work many years ago. What a hoot! I wonder if is slows down when you turn them all on, because of the power being diverted from the drivetrain?

    Can imagine how impossible it might be to drive or pick up if the kickstand ever failed?
     
  12. NoMoShocks

    NoMoShocks Electrical Engineer

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    1,292
    81
    11
    Location:
    Camas, WA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I believe Rich said he was involved as a contributor to authoring the headlight code, not "the author". Rich can clarify this as he sees fit.
     
  13. DGH

    DGH Thread Terminator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    365
    93
    0
    Location:
    Wales, WI
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In Wisconsin, fog lights are allowed to be turned on only
    during "inclement" weather.

    Do people follow the law? Sadly......NO.

    My experience is that the rules of the road are disappearing, anarchy is the new rule. Again....sadly.

    Dan.
    And yes, I do detest the cretins with the always on fog lights.
     
  14. HolyPotato

    HolyPotato Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    92
    11
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You can instead insert the text between separate quote boxes by using the quote tags... [ quote ] [ /quote ] {remove the spaces between the square brackets to make the tags actually function}

    I like separate quote boxes because then there isn't the ambiguity of whether the coloured text is being highlighted in the quote for emphasis, or is the response. :)

    Unfortunately, I don't have anything useful to add to this discussion on fog lamps :(. Carry on.

    hope this helps
     
  15. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    In South Australia only rear fog lights are not to be iluminated except in poor visibility caused by rain or fog. Front fog lights may be used any time but must not dazzle other road users.
    Always use cheap and unimpressive front fog lights in South Australia. Wouldn't want to dazzle anyone!
     
  16. NoMoShocks

    NoMoShocks Electrical Engineer

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    1,292
    81
    11
    Location:
    Camas, WA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I was a "cretin" I guess, but for me, it was a matter of understanding the rationalle. As soon as I read that the extra light up close actually diminishes you vision down the road, due to eyes adjusting to the brighter light up close, I stopped leaving the Fog Lights on "for good measure".

    I think I will fit my Prius with the light array from the motorcycle, but have some sensors that turn different lights on and off based on a variety of factors such as the colors of cars around mine, angle of the sun, so on.
     
  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Here is what Rich actually said:
    which can be found in this thread: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-modifications/44884-change-direction-my-lighting-mods.html

    His comment was about daytime running lights, not headlights in general.

    I assume almost all laws and codes are beaten into shape by a number of authors and contributors. It's hard to imagine any of them having a single author by the time they get through the bureaucratic maze and legislative process.

    Tom
     
  18. DGH

    DGH Thread Terminator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    365
    93
    0
    Location:
    Wales, WI
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Daytime on OK, on all the time, EVERY night--- BAD.:D
     
  19. N3FOL

    N3FOL Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    891
    16
    0
    Location:
    Stewartstown, PA.
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    I got the pic from our motorcycle forum. The pic may have been photoshopped...:eek:

    The kickstand may survive for it is a very strong piece of metal, but I don't think the rider will go very far until a rock comes his way. :D
     
  20. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,981
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    1. Not very good to post about law if you are not prepared to give a legal opinion, and are qualified!
    2. Just because fog lamps may be ok in your area doesn't mean they are ok everywhere. This forum is used across the world! Post carefully!
    3. I have never seen anyone say fog lamps are illegal in any post I have read, and I have never posted fog lamps are illegal in any posts I've put up. I have stated they may be illegal to have on without the headlamps on -in some jurisdictions-.

    In Alberta the following applies:
    Auxiliary driving or fog lamps
    50(1) In this section,
    (a) “auxiliary driving lamp†means a SAE J581 type Y lamp;
    (b) “fog lamp†means a SAE J583 type F lamp.
    (2) A motor vehicle may have fixed or movable auxiliary driving lamps or fog lamps mounted on the front if their centres are lower than the centres of the headlamps.
    (3) Not more than 2 auxiliary driving lamps or 2 fog lamps may be mounted on each side of the vertical centre line.
    (4) Auxiliary driving lamps on a motor vehicle must be used only at the same time the high beams on the headlamps are used.
    (5) Fog lamps on a motor vehicle must be used only at the same time the low beams on the headlamps are used.
    (6) Despite subsection (5), fog lamps may be used without headlamps if the weather and road conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
    (7) A person shall not drive or operate or own a motor vehicle that has a total of more than 4 auxiliary driving lamps and fog lamps.
    (8) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle that has a total of more than 2 auxiliary driving lamps and fog lamps lit at the same time.
    (9) An auxiliary driving lamp or fog lamp on an unloaded motor vehicle must be adjusted and aimed so that none of the high‑intensity portion of the light to the left of centre of the vehicle projects, at a distance of 8 metres ahead, higher than 100 millimetres below the centre of the lamp from which the light is projected.
    (10) Fog lamps on a motor vehicle may emit amber or white light.

    Take note of #5 and #6. It appears the application of either is at the discretion of the officer who stops you. ;)