AC Propulsion E-Box tested by Autoweek

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...18009/1007/FREE

"From the time gm crushed the last EV1, there has been precious little in the way of electric vehicles available for the average consumer. All that changed last month, when AC Propulsion delivered its first eBox to actor Tom Hanks."

 

[qutoe]Economies of scale (or rather, lack thereof) explain the high price, with a planned production of 20 conversions for the coming year.[/quote]
Yup - Imagine how much it would cost to hand build ONE Prius, for example. Ouch. How about taking a Yaris and CONVERTING it to a Prius. Could you do that for under $100k? I sure don't think so!

Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. I've even come around - I don't think that the Prius is the ugliest car on the road any longer!

Anyway, it is what it is - and it just goes to show what CAN be done by a very small company that actually WANTS to do this. Just imagine how good it could be if it were designed as an EV from the ground up... by a big car maker with limitless funds. If the Prius could be brought to market at the $20k price-point, there's no reason that something like this would be too much different given the same quantities. For these, the car has to be purchased complete, and then you add labor just to tear out all the ICE crap and throw it away - before you even begin to add back all the expensive pieces of the E-drive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 21 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]427300[/snapback]</div>

Oh, I won't pretend that you're wrong! There's simply no magic wand to wave and make it better though. Same with Tesla, same with CommuterCars, etc. You can't build these from scratch and charge the customer 30% of what they cost you to build... and hope to stay in business. Unless, that is, you are a huge company that can absorb start-up costs... like Toyota had to do with the Prius. We have to find a way to get the build numbers up so that the scales of economy can finally lend a hand and help all of us... like Toyota did with the Prius (I'm not being too subtle here, am I?)

The overall goal for right now is to show it can be done, show that the cars are viable, and show that the auto industry can (and should) do this! What pains me is that if this all works - thanks to the little guys taking the big risks today... then those same little guys may very well end up losing to the big guys who come after and take the market with instant economies of scale. The little guys will have to stay ahead with better performance, and cutting edge technology.

If an unknown company like Tesla can pre-sell 300 impractical, $100,000 cars with just a hope and prayer, you really do have to wonder what the numbers would look like for a practical mass-produced-by-the-big-guys car at $45k. Especially now that the public is just on the cusp of being aware of the actual BENEFITS of e-drive, after being spoon fed all the negatives for 12 years. The car makers just love to tell us that there is "no market" for EVs. And yet no mainstream EV has ever been marketed! So that's a pretty big stretch!

Even this eBox review trashed the EV1 with misinformation. But that's the nature of the beast, and the EV1 is behind us. As long as we begin to concentrate on what is available and possible NOW, we'll be in good shape.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Apr 21 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]427410[/snapback]</div>

If by "they" you mean the battery industry, then the answer is yes.

The Phoenix SUT will have a 12-year 250k mile batter warranty. Now THAT is insane. That's of course more warranty than you'll find on a gasoline car.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

These are NOT the batteries currently used in the e-box however. But the e-box marketing is not dependent on rebates, etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 21 2007, 01:38 PM) [snapback]427406[/snapback]</div>

This vehicle would be a great fit for those who enjoy living on the bleeding edge; for those who can afford to support this technology in its infancy - and maybe those who want to drive a wolf in sheep's clothing. Those who need a long, rock-solid warranty need not apply. But we've got to start somewhere, and this is a hell of a (re)start!

 

Yup. All the responses are correct. First off, as many people think the Prius is ugly as think the Xb is ugly - so you've got the beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing going on.

Second - the Xb was simply the most practical choice. It is a light, already efficient, inexepensive vehicle that has the room for the conversion. They HAD to start with a cheaper vehicle or the price quickly gets up near $100k. The Xb really was the best choice out there. And yes, they are seriously looking at other candidates, but had to start somewhere.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Apr 23 2007, 05:23 AM) [snapback]428235[/snapback]</div>

You got it. And we're all hoping. But we've also seen smoke and mirrors before. Fingers crossed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 23 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]428357[/snapback]</div>

Indeed. Awaiting the "perfect" batteries is simply silly. Just how great were the first ICE's back in the early 20th century? Did they wait for fuel injection and multi-valve heads? Did Toyota wait for PHEVs to start marketing their hybrids? Nope - they started with what was "good enough." This is a classic case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. We can put good - even GREAT - PHEVs out now, with mature battery technology that will last the life of the car. Maybe it'll only go 30 miles instead of 40. Maybe the next generation would go 60 miles. And 100 miles five years later. But as Daniel says - get going NOW with what we've got. If the Altair Nano lives up to the promises, then the sky is the limit. But just like when you need a new computer, you have to buy one... with existing technology. Tomorrow there will always be something better and cheaper, and if you continually wait for you, you have nothing.