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Adding RS3200 / GBS

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by garypear, Feb 23, 2005.

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  1. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    I have an '05 Prius Accessory package "B": smart entry but NOT smart "keyless" entry as on "C". What's the difference? According to one part distributor, I can't add on any alarm upgrades because his database indicates my VIN is NOT "keyless".

    My understanding is the extent of theft deterrence in a "B" package is only the engine immobilizer and the ability to set off an audible alarm by remote panic button.

    I think I'd like to add the following (even though I realize it won't accomplish all that much):

    1. Have the alarm go off if a car door / trunk / hood is opened somehow from the outside (ideally, even if by just opening a door I left unlocked long enough for the alarm to have set itself.)

    2. Glass breakage and/or attempted tampering noise vibration.

    I THINK I want activation/deactivation to be automatic in conjunction with the smart entry: either just by my FOB being in proximity or by my unlocking the doors - which would be better?

    Does adding either RS3200 or GBS require a trip to the dealership to reprogram the FOBS and/or the alarm itself?

    Am I correct that adding RS3200 will accomplish #1 above and adding GBS on top of that will get me both #1 and #2?

    In addition to the confusion about what will/won't work on my car, also having trouble figuring out what's being offered. I've seen RS3200 and GBS listed separately but with the same part number and at the same price from the same distributor. Someone or something has given me the idea that in certain cases (not sure which) just adding the GBS is the equivalent of adding both GBS and RS3200?

    My dealership said I could not add on the RS3200 because Toyota was telling them not to because of some resulting conflicts with the smart entry? Another dealership said they had done it without a problem.
     
    #1 garypear, Feb 23, 2005
  2. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I don't think there is such a thing as having SE withouth SS, at least not in North America. SKS is one package; you keep the fob in your pocket, you can unlock the door without taking out the fob, and you can start the car without taking out the fob and putting it in the slot. Perhaps I am not understanding by what you mean by Smart Keyless entry and the distinction between that and Smart Entry

    If you have SKS, you should have alarm. The interesting thing is, the alarm itself is in the body ECU. The only add-on for alarm is the extra horn, and a courtesy switch for the hood to detect it being tampered with, so it should be available in any package. Don't know much about the RS3200, but I imagine it is a standard aftermarket alarm system that senses the door pin switches for entry, and IG to activate it. Probably has its own fob, if any. It may be able to lock the doors for you, by triggering the lock wire that the passenger door lock switch would do.

    As for integrating alarm/lock with fob presence through SKS, that can't be done. I have the BC package, and I tried getting the car to lock itself if I left it for 30 seconds by setting passive mode on the alarm. Passive mode arms the alarm after 30 seconds of power off and all doors closed, no matter if the doors are locked or not. When it arms, it doesn't lock the doors. It would not prohibit arming if my fob was near.

    As for GBS, if you have factory alarm option with your package, you can add the GBS. Otherwise, it depends on your alarm add-on. GBS is basically just another 'entry' sensor, so it can be hooked up with the door entry sense. Might have to be isolated by a diode so that it doesn't confuse the car.

    What is your location, US? Canada? European? other?
     
    #2 DanMan32, Feb 24, 2005
  3. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    Can I get some exact definitions on those acronyms?

    I don't KNOW the distinction between smart entry (Package "B") and smart keyless entry (Package "C"). Please re-read first two lines of my initial post!
    I don't understand why smart entry "B" is less "keyless" than accessory package "C".

    Nevertheless, Toyota's description of accessory package "B" vs. "C" and the database the parts guy used on my VIN agree my "B" Prius is NOT considered keyless! I'm in the USA.
     
    #3 garypear, Feb 25, 2005
  4. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I did read your post. I have no idea what you are talking about when talking about smart keyless entry. Perhaps you mean Wireless door lock? Perhapse it is AKA Wireless keyless entry, and isn't that smart. That's the buttons on the fob that can lock and unlock the door. All Prius have them. The only thing thats an option with regards to entry or start, is SKS, which is the only thing labeled as 'smart'.

    In many ways, yes, Prius is keyless. You only need the metal key if the battery on the fob goes dead.
    There are two types of fobs. One with silver logo, that is SKS compatable where you can just touch the underside of the door handle and the door will unlock, and one with black logo, which is without SKS function where you have to push the unlock button on the fob to unlock the door, or use the metal key. Without SKS, you need to put the fob in the slot to power on the car, with SKS you do not have to do that; it will poll for the fob with radio waves, and the SKS fob will respond with its ID.

    How do you get in and start your vehicle? Do you have a little back button next to the outside driver door handle? If so, you have SKS, if not, you don't.
     
    #4 DanMan32, Feb 25, 2005
  5. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    I have what you call SKS. Would still like those definitions, please, but in any case Toyota refers to it in (two?) different ways.

    Moving 1 "continue" click from the following build your own Prius webpage

    http://www.tmsbuyatoyota.com/configurator/...=12&hide_navs=1

    takes you to its 2nd page, the accessory page where you will find:

    OptionComboB: "Smart Entry System"
    OptionComboC: "Smart Keyless Entry System"

    My car is "B": Smart, but not "keyless" (according to both this website and the parts guy who inputted my VIN into his database.) Though not keyless, it is "SKS" compatible according to your definition. (One of my very favorite things about my car: not having to take the remote out of my pocket.)

    Had I not known more about it, I'd have concluded the above was just some "loose" terminology on the part of Toyota's webtext (adding the word "Keyless" to OCC's description even though what's on C is actually identical to what's on B. But then the parts guy told me I can't install RS3200 because his database says my VIN means my car does not have "keyless" entry and you must have "keyless" entry to add RS3200.

    I have another parts guy working on it but the last email he sent me requested by VIN so I fear he will just tell me the same thing without providing any further clarifying information.
     
    #5 garypear, Feb 25, 2005
  6. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I don't know what definitions you are asking for.

    I believe the 'smart' in both B and C are referring to the same thing. Both are keyless. Again, if you have the siver emblem, it is not only keyless, but hands free, meaning you don't have to reach for the fob at all.

    I understand what you are referring to by the problem with the 'keyless' requirement of RS3200. I saw that in the link to the option when I was looking for something else. What I believe is meant by keyless in the RS3200 description means the wireless door lock function, or the fob.
    I assure you, both package B and C are keyless in every sense of the word. All prius come with wireless remote lock/unlock, all prius use the fob for the immobilizer by putting it in the slot, and both packages refer to 'smart' which means SKS. SKS stands for Smart Key System or Smart Keyless System. It was formerly calles SE/SS or Smart Entry/Smart Start, which covered both smart funtions: You can open the door without grabing for the fob, and you can start the car without putting the fob in the slot.

    Many have reported dealers installing RS3200 in place of the missing factory alarm. I don't understand why the alarm is an option, since it is a function of the body ECU, and the only additional components to the alarm is the 'courtesy' switch for the hood, and the additional horn dedicated for the alarm. I suspect but can't prove that the alarm function could be turned on, but only use the regular horn and not protect the hood.

    Again, I believe the RS3200 requiring keyless entry means it needs to have a factory included fob that could unlock the doors. All Prius have that feature. You can use both an SKS and non SKS prius fob on any prius to unlock the doors, as long as the prius was programmed to recognize that fob's code. Since all prius have the same wireless feature, and RS3200 have been installed in prius by dealers, you should not have problems getting the RS3200 installed.

    Don't forget, many dealers don't know what they are talking about.
    Perhaps Kyle and/or Rick can confirm my assertions? Is the RS3200 compatable with a Prius, or have some dealers inappropriately installed it on Prius?
     
    #6 DanMan32, Feb 25, 2005
  7. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    By definitions I meant what the acronyms stood for.

    It's kind of annoying how many different ways this ONE system has/is being referred to (SKS=Smart Keyless/Key System , SE/SS=Smart Entry/Smart Start, and Toyota's build your own option configuration OCB/OCC = Smart Entry System/Smart Entry Keyless System. ALL, if I understand it, referring to the same thing: a system that lets you keep your FOB in your pocket.

    Again, I wouldn't care but apparently there's a database that's telling parts guys whether what I want to buy from them will work in my car that thinks there's a distinction that's relevant.

    So the questions remaining are:

    1. My car, even though only a " B", is VERY keyless (not just a FOB w/ unlock/lock buttons but a SMART FOB I can keep in my pocket.) So why is Eddie Bell's database telling him my VIN indicates my car is NOT keyless and thus can't use the RS3200?

    2. Even assuming I can get past problem 1 above, there remains the issue of what my dealer told me: Toyota discourages or disallows adding RS3200 (once it reaches the dealer?) to a "B" (any?) car because doing so caused some conflict with the smart entry system? Perhaps this is duplicating issue #1, but perhaps not. Once again, other dealer said they did it no problem. Still waiting to hear back from my dealer for more details.

    3. What will get me as much of what I stated I want in my initial post: just the RS3200 or the GBS or both? And why do they have the same part numbers?

    4. Will I have to have my FOBS reprogrammed and if so what's involved and how much should I expect to pay?

    Does anybody know if the http://techinfo.toyota.com/ would have the install instructions for the RS3200? I've already read through the instructions for the GBS and it didn't help answer any of these questions.
     
    #7 garypear, Feb 25, 2005
  8. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    Turns out my car IS keyless

    Just got another call from Eddie Bell who, after investigating the matter further, now concurs my Prius 05 Option Configuration B IS keyless (Toyota's? database had somehow given him the impression my VIN indicated it wasn't.)

    He also said he has the entire options list for my particular car. I'll post more about what alarm upgrades will work after I find out more.
     
    #8 garypear, Feb 28, 2005
  9. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    GBS=Glass Breakage Sensor. It installs into a Prius with a factory alarm.
    I think the RS3200 has its own GBS, though I am not sure of this.

    Trying to follow directions to GBS in order to understand RS3200 installation is like trying to install an EV switch onto a corolla. Corolla doesn't have the main function for an EV switch to take advantage of, and neither can a GBS enhance an alarm that you don't have (yet).

    Perhaps Rick or Kyle have more information on the RS3200 and if it works with SKS or not.
    I think the possible conflict with SKS and RS3200 is that to deactivate the RS3200, I believe you have to operate your remote unlock, which defeats the whole point to SKS. I am suprised though that you don't have a factory alarm. Perhaps you can get someone truly knowlegable about the Prius to determine if you actually do have an alarm or not. Most dealers I suspect are clueless and rely on paperwork that is misleading or incorrect.

    My Saturn dealer told me I had ABS on my SL2. I very soon found out I didn't. No relays, no fuses, no traction button. All would have been present if I had ABS on that car. He caused me to lie to my insurance.
     
    #9 DanMan32, Feb 28, 2005
  10. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    #10 garypear, Mar 9, 2005
  11. rick57

    rick57 Member

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    Man you guys are confusing me :? I will reread your posts later,still at work.In the meantime,maybe PM Kyle to make sure he reads this thread..He seems to have more experience in this then I do. I will do more checking on my end though. I would like to know also. I have never had to install GBS or RS3200 in a Prius yet.
     
    #11 rick57, Mar 9, 2005
  12. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Here's a link to the passive mode dance. I posted it in a much earlier thread, but I'm not sure where it is. But since I posted this attachment, I am able to make a link here:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/download.php?id=1104

    Insurance defines passive alarm to be that it arms automatically without user intervention. Most people nowadays actually have ACTIVE alarm systems that they must arm themselves. Even the Saturn factory alarm is this way. However, since most would use the remote to both lock the doors and arm the alarm, this could be debated as passive, though if you forget to press the wireless remote on many cars, the doors are left unlocked and alarm unarmed. Some cars, like ours, will arm automatically if the doors are locked, no matter how you locked them. That MIGHT be considered passive in the eyes of insurance companies, but even that is a manual step.

    Prius can be set for passive alarm, but not passive lock.
     
    #12 DanMan32, Mar 10, 2005
  13. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    OK, from all the posts I've read, it appears that RS3200 is nothing more than activating the alarm that is already in the car. No additional hardware needed. In order for Toyota to not get caught in this, they also sell you the GBS option that you really don't need to activate the alarm.

    So with RS3200, you get an optional GBS, and instructions on how to turn on how to install the optional but not needed GBS, and instructions on how to turn on the alarm, and its GBS sensing.

    Pretty sneaky of Toyota. I am really disappointed in them.
     
    #13 DanMan32, Mar 10, 2005
  14. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    So when you say "no additional hardware needed" you are suggesting an RS3200 install enables the alarm without use of a Scantool?

    Do you suppose one need worry whether what one buys is an RS3200 as defined and not just a GBS lacking that ability?

    At http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/catalog/defa...sort=1a&&page=2 they list both of the following:

    "Alarm system, Prius RS3200 Plus 2004-05" with the advisory that the car "Must be equipped with factory keyless entry system."

    http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=2113

    and also

    "Alarm system, Prius GBS 2004-05" with the advisory that the car "Must be equipped with factory security system."

    http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=2110

    Other than that the descriptions are identical:

    "Complete Kit, Model GBS - Toyota VIP protects against theft by activating when the vehicle glass is broken or when a door is forcibly opened. Features remote locking and unlocking, this system is so effective, your insurance deductible may be reimbursed if your vehicle is stolen.*"

    Prices and part numbers are also identical.

    Same story below (but with a better price: $69.60 + $9.95 ship to my zip)

    http://www.partstoyota.com/shop/category.a...Category_ID=330

    Guess there's no reason not to just buy the RS3200 but I'd still like to know exactly what will have to happen after that.
     
    #14 garypear, Mar 10, 2005
  15. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    No, I mean nothing needs to be permenantly installed on the car.

    I don't understand what you are asking. GBS is a sensor, that's all, just as the hood switch is a sensor. RS3200 hardware is already in the car, just needs to be turned on. Toyota sells you the privlege for having the dealer turn it on. Does that answer this question?

    I believe this has been said a dozen times. ALL Prius have keyless entry, that's why you have a fob with buttons.

    GBS is hardware that is installed in the car to sense glass breakage. Obviously, an alarm would be needed to receive the signal. All Prius apparently have this alarm, but some packages have it disabled. You pay to have it turned on, and it seems you get a GBS to boot.

    If you already have the alarm enabled with your package, you don't have to pay to have it turned on, so you just buy the GBS.

    This is the way I see it. I am making up prices as an example:

    GBS Only: $120 - Installs GBS and enables its sense, alarm is already on.
    RS3200 w/GBS: $200 - Turns on alarm, and installs GBS.
    You pay $80 to give the dealer instructions on how to enable the alarm, something that takes him one minute and 20 seconds to do, and $120 to install the GBS and enable that feature.
     
    #15 DanMan32, Mar 11, 2005
  16. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    Yes I understand your claim that all Prius have "keyless entry" but I think there is a good chance that what was meant by that requirement listing on the purchase page of the RS3200 is that the car have "smart entry". Otherwise, why list as a special requirement something every single version of the car has?

    Related question: does the RS3200 hardware exist (enabled or not) on every Prius or just those with smart entry?

    The purpose of my last post was to determine, given the fact that the RS3200 hardware is already in the car, whether there is any relevant significance to there still in some cases being two options available regarding purchasing a security system upgrade, after already have taken delivery of the vehicle: RS3200 (apparently with GBS) or just GBS?

    And even though the decision about which one to put in my shopping cart is easy (RS3200 since I have a BI, would be GBS if I had a BC) I'd still like to know if the RS-3200 I'll buy will be in any way different from a GBS, and if so, how.

    Possibilities, in order of most likely to least likely, in my opinion:

    1. No difference whatsoever.

    2. Same exact hardware, but RS3200 comes with instructions on how to turn on the alarm, or even just that it's required by a restriction placed by Toyota on its dealers that the box handed to the dealer need be labeled "RS3200" in order for the dealer to be authorized to turn on the alarm.

    Although the latter seems unlikely, especially since the RS-3200 costs the same as the GBS, it's possible that that was not always the case. Perhaps it used to cost more, the extra cost constituting the equivalent of a "permission fee" Toyota collects (in addition to the labor fee that would subsequently be paid for the actual installation.)

    3. The hardware is different; the RS3200 having something extra that would either turn on the alarm automatically (negating the need for a Scantool) or IS NECESSARY because without whatever it is, even an experienced Scantool user would not be able to successfully turn on the alarm without it.

    The fact that (if I remember correctly) it's been established on this board that the alarm can be turned on without buying EITHER an RS3200 or a GBS, is part of the reason I consider this possibility the least likely.

    [hr:67d9e7257e]
    The fact that I've located installation instructions for the GBS, but none for an RS-3200, is part of why I pick 1 above as most likely, but if anyone knows a reason why what comes in an RS3200 box would differ from what comes in a GBS box, please respond.

    NEW INFO: My (turns out to be incorrect) assumption there exists no instructions for the RS3200 separate and apart from those for the GBS was based on searches of PriusChat, PriusOnline, Prius Yahoo Group and Google (but NOT http://techinfo.toyota.com). The dealership who installed my RS3200 and turned on my alarm WAS able to access instructions for installing the RS3200 kit and it IS a document separate and at least slightly different from the GBS add-on install instructions available on a separate thread of this website. In particular, page 10 of the RS3200 doc instructs removal of a yellow wire (required to activate the alarm) - please see post further down this thread for more info. (I have therefore changed my pick to #2 above instead.)
     
    #16 garypear, Mar 11, 2005
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  17. TucsonPrius

    TucsonPrius Member

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    I'm leaning towards the idea of having the dealer turn on the RS3200, but I would like a bit more detail in how it's armed/disarmed (I realy hate false alarms). From reading other posts, here's how I think the RS3200 works when activated (and not in passive mode), please correct as needed.

    1) Arming is done automatically when the doors are locked.

    2) Disarming is done when can is started. There is a 30 second grace period between opening the door and starting the car before the alarm goes off

    Thanks,
    Shawn
     
    #17 TucsonPrius, Mar 13, 2005
  18. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    When the alarm is in active mode, when you lock the door, it is armed. When you unlock the door, it is disarmed. See page 44 of the owner's manual
    When in passive mode, when you power off, 30 seconds after doors are closed, it is armed. I believe it disarms the same way as active mode. Only difference here is that the alarm arms without having to lock any doors.

    The alarm electronics IS the body ECU. That's where the GBS gets connected to, and the scan tool has an unclearly documented option as Kyle has pointed out in Suppressing all Beeps thread. I think it is labeled DOR or something like that.
     
    #18 DanMan32, Mar 15, 2005
  19. garypear

    garypear New Member

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    When the car is in passive mode, the alarm will also arm immediately when one locks the doors? (As well as after 30 seconds after (the last?) car door is closed?)

    TucsonPrius's 2) is incorrect then: there is no grace period for the alarm to sound, in either mode?

    I'm leaning towards passive mode as, if I understand it correctly, the only downside is having the alarm arm after 30 seconds when you didn't want it to and/or weren't expecting it? Regarding that, I believe the dash "key" (alarm) indicator light appears differently in someway when the alarm is armed?

    Also, if you go back to the car after 30 seconds and the unlocked car's passive alarm is now active, it can be deactivated by locking the car and then unlocking it?

    Am I correct that there is no autolock in either mode? It's the locking/unlocking that activates/deactivates the alarm and not the other way around at all?

    Please note my prior references to Option Configuration:B and OC:C are apparently geographical (only 3 configurations available for purchase in my area) so that by OC:B I meant BI and by OC:C I meant BC.
     
    #19 garypear, Mar 15, 2005
  20. dspguy

    dspguy Junior Member

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    I have a 2005 with the BI package (#3 which adds the smart key and side airbags only.) Is it possible for someone with a scantool to just turn on the alarm system? Obviously I would not have the gbs in that case.
     
    #20 dspguy, Mar 18, 2005
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