Advice needed for an Aftermarket XM antenna for my 57011

Discussion in 'Prius v Audio and Electronics' started by gromittoo, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    3+ years ago, I upgraded the stock 57010 unit in my 2013 Prius V two to a 57011. The main reason was I needed Navigation, and HD radio. I was able to find an aftermarket GPS antenna that fit nicely behind the air ducts above the unit, and has been working fine. I had no desire to get XM at the time, and my car being a two, does not have a Sat antenna on the roof. Also, my car being a two, I never got contacted by Sirius XM about any trials.

    OK, in June of 2021 I buy my 2017 Prius V, but keep the 2013 as my Uber vehicle. 30 days later, I get a call from Sirius XM offering me a free trial. OK, I'll take the trial, but the 2013 Prius V two with the 57011 is the Uber car for now, (at least until it hits 150k) I want to use the free trial on the 2013, and I was told I can use it on both cars. Problem: the 2013 has no antenna. I believe that an aftermarket XM antenna can be placed next to my GPS antenna.

    OK so I recall that the jacks for the Satellite and GPS antennas on the back of the 57011 unit were of a special kind. I don't have time to pull the 57011 out this week, and I'd like to order a cheap aftermarket XM antenna on eBay for the duration of the trial. I'd like to avoid pulling the unit out twice.

    One other consideration:

    The 2017 Prius four has a 510165 unit, which is very similar to 510057 "Facelift" unit used in Kapik's great thread on upgrading from a 57011. When I drive it, I find myself getting spoiled by having both the radio and radio displayed at the same time. While Ubering in the 2013, I leave the "Maps" view on by default. This is how I know what street I am driving on, and what the next street is coming up. Every now and then, I want to know what song is playing, and I briefly switch back to radio. I think I will eventually upgrade to the newer unit. The "Facelift" unit even has a small icon on the map that is a Compass!

    If I keep the XM radio subscription, I may want an aftermarket antenna that fits "Facelift" unit. That may mean buying a different aftermarket XM antenna. That is OK if I need to do it.
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    I think I would just get the xm app on your phone and bluetooth it to the 2013 radio. You can still use nav. Plus there are many extra channels on the app and the use of the app is free with the 2017 subscription.
     
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  3. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Thanks for suggesting that. I did not know that the phone was an option.

    The phone I use is an 5+ year old Galaxy Note 5, and I am already using it for a lot of apps simultaneously (Lyft + Uber + Google maps + a few helper apps, + sometimes Doordash). Adding a streaming app to the mix would make things more complicated, and slow the phone down even more.

    There is a complicated reason I have not been willing to upgrade the phone, which I won't go into.
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    If you go forward with a standard xm antenna, you will need a HFC to SMD adapter. I have linked one below adapter cable that one reviewer modified to work. Years ago when I had xm reception problems. In my case it was factory installed xm with problems caused by the antenna base. The antenna base is actually a low noise amplifier/preamp which is required with relatively long coax runs.

    Automobile satellite receivers (SDARS) are able to receive signals from satellite-based and terrestrial transmitters at the same time. In downtown areas of big cities, xm is transmitted locally to ensure reception even in parking garages or when satellites are blocked by buildings.

    The antenna base on my car has three coax cables to the mfd - satellite xm, terrestrial xm and am/fm. The radio also sends power to the preamp. These details are not well illustrated in Toyota's wiring diagrams beyond specifying a SDAR, Main and Sub Antenna. Toyota's parts catalog simply shows the cables.


    (According to one review, this was successfully adapted to fit in the mfd's blue receptacle)

    The pic with the HFC Female is the factory connector that plugs into the head unit.

    Toyota Antenna Test Kit and Parts
    https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2015/10/96205_T-SB-0014-15.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

    #4 rjparker, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  5. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    PC does some strange things with Amazon Links. Anyway, I found the adapter.

    I am beginning to think getting XM to work in my 2013 two maybe more work than I can justify for a 2 month free trial. When I first got the 57011, I got the GPS to work with a simple $18 aftermarket GPS antenna, which is located under the dash. I was hoping it would be that easy to connect Sirius XM.

    I could easily set it up in the 2017, which my wife is the main driver. She stays out here in the Northern Suburbs.

    Doing Ubering, I definitely hit tall buildings in Center City Philadelphia. One of the three Nightclub hotspots where I regularly pickup passengers is deep in what I call the "Comcast Forest". Tall buildings would also cause problems with any phone based streaming service. I am just glad that the "Dead Reckoning" in the car GPS never lies about where I am.
     
  6. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Follow up clarification:

    Assuming I bought a generic SirusXM Antenna such as Amazon item ID: B08QD45574 for $17.99, I would still need to buy the adapter you mentioned Amazon item ID: B01AQXR1C0 for $13.78.

    The antenna would plug into the bullet shaped end of the Adapter, and the gray square end of the Adapter (with some modification) would plug into the blue connector on the back of the MFD/radio unit. I am guessing this would give me access to satellite only Sirus XM signals, no FM backup. I am guessing that the white connector under the blue connector that has two coaxial connections is what the Toyota shark fin antenna would plug into (FM+SAT).

    If that is correct, it would cost about $35 for a free trial, and it might only get decent reception out in the suburbs. OK. I would have hoped that somebody sold an inexpensive XM antenna with the square connector already on it. I looked, but did not find, it may still be out there.

    Qustion: if I upgrade to the "Facelift" 510057 model MFD/Radio (from a 2015/16 Prius V), I recall that it needed different connectors for SAT and GPS. Would the bullet connectors be the correct type? Would a different adapter be needed? I am really getting spoiled by the side by side display on the 2017, so this could happen to the 2013 someday.

    When I was looking for an GPS antenna at the begining of 2018, I had many choices of connectors, and the one I bought fit if I pushed it in hard enough. For $18, and the $120 I paid for the 57011 unit, I was overjoyed.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Attached Files:

    #7 rjparker, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Another option for an adapter cable with a minor modification. The mod is illustrated by the retailer with a pic which adds credibility. The green connector is called a HFC II.

    I believe this company could also provide an adapter for the newer radio.

    https://www.discountcarstereo.com/xma-toy.html?category_id=273

    560DAD71-8D37-4D3F-BCE9-AE18F13731CB.jpeg
     
    #8 rjparker, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  9. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    This looks like a bit of research on @rjparker's part, and I am thankful. I have decided to buy the newer 510057 radio, and start XM from there. If I understand correctly, the adapter above would work with the older unit, but that site might have what I need.

    I have been Ubering more than usual this week, to pay for the 50% increase in my car insurance. So I have just seen your post.

    That said, I have decided to upgrade ASAP. Two nights this week was I pulled into "radio no mans land" in South New Jersey. Having access to "Classic Vinyl" would have improved my sanity. I can write off part the XM cost on my taxes. Having a quality Commercial free Hispanic or Rap channel would help with those awkward silent rides.

    Also, I like the split screen of the newer unit I have in the 2017. Currently, I switch from Maps and Audio just to see the name of the song, and then go back again. This is distracting while driving. The split screen eliminates the distraction, and adds a much needed compass!.

    I put about 8 different listings into my watch list on eBay. Last night, I got a message from one of the better listings where they proposed a lower price offer. I am going to counter with $200.

    I am pretty sure that the Dark Gray connector on the expansion box in the lower left corner is the GPS input. At least that is where my aftermarket GPS antenna plugged in on my 57011. Note that the @Kepik thread had the GPS and XM connectors backwards.

    I am less sure about the XM input, with the OEM rooftop antenna, I believe the XM antenna would be half of the rectangular connector on the far right (shared with the AM/FM antenna). It has two RF connections in that socket. Would an aftermarket antenna plug into the light gray connector (HFC II?), or the U shaped connector on the top? From reading Kepik's thread, I think it is the U shaped connector.

    Here is a picture of the back of a 510057:
    129806_Screen_Shot_2017-07-27_at_10.03.35_PM.png
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    D7124928-3A1A-4F10-9504-B312BD85A21E.jpeg
    As noted in the earlier post, the rooftop antenna base (preamp) uses at least three coaxes to the head unit and that does not include the gps. The xm is by itself in the pic above.
     
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  11. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Thanks for making it so crystal clear. It now makes sense. The AM/FM (Main) & SUB connector on my 2013 Prius V two only contains one wire, even though there is space for two wires in the connector.

    If I buy an aftermarket XM antenna, it will need to plug into the U shaped connector. I seem to recall you describing that XM uses HD radio channels in cities as a backup signal for when the satellites can't be reached. I am assuming that is the "SUB" function.

    Well this afternoon I broke my current aftermarket GPS antenna. The antenna itself was held in place inside my dashboard using some heavy duty Velcro. I peeled the Velcro off the antenna to try to get dome sort of identifying number. When I peeled off the Velcro, the foil back came off, and what looked like a button battery fell out. There was no useful information on the foil backing of the antenna.

    I put it back together, and drove around the block. My GPS still seemed to work, so I went out driving. It is not working. The GPS display is now about 10 miles off of where it actually is, and it clearly does not know where north is. I think the GPS is only using "Dead Reckoning" at this point, and it is only going to get worse. I need to have a working GPS in my car, to tell me with 100% certainty the name of the street I am on, and the direction I am heading. In the "Comcast Forest" of tall buildings in Center City, a phone is worse than useless.

    BTW: when I bought the GPS antenna, it had an "HFC II" connector on it, and I had to file off the same ridge as shown in your screenshot.

    That picture is kinda dark near the GPS socket, but it too is U shaped, and different from the 57011. I actually found a seller on Amazon or eBay that showed using their Aftermarket antenna (SMB?), and using Hot Melt Glue to hold it into the back of the unit!
     
  12. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    I think I would call or email discountcarstereo.com to verify what is essential to make your head unit swap work. It appears HFC2 is what the new unit needs.

    I believe the xm terrestrial signals are actually in the same frequency range as the satellite sourced signals rather than using HD radio frequencies or similar. The XM terrestrial transmitters are low power and require multiple locations in one city for coverage.

    When you drive into a parking garage and still have XM, terrestrial transmitters are primary. XM radios also have a four or five second buffer to allow short interruptions of the satellite signal as you drive through underpasses or have a tall building in the path as you cruise down the freeway.

    To add interest, XM's own receivers like an XM2Go (home dockable with a SMD antenna, vehicle docking with SMD or usable as a battery operated portable) have dual satellite and terrestrial signal strength meters BUT use one SMD antenna for both. Toyota's head unit supplier may have had a "better" idea for remote automotive antennas using three coaxes and a preamp in the antenna base.

    XM channels now get as little as 4 kbs bandwidth for some voice only channels while maintaining the ability to dynamically reallocate bandwidth on a hour by hour basis. Meanwhile HD radio bandwidth is about 400khz, making it the highest quality rf source on the Toyota head units. HD radio frequency response, stereo separation, bass response, etc is significantly better than any XM or normal analog FM channel.

    As an aside, the v's have a reputation for poor bass and practically no output from the rear door speakers. They have no user selectable frequency response / bass boost profiles that are common on other head units. However a good HD radio broadcast will wake up those rear speakers with decent bass. Almost like Toyota's supplier designed the system around their HD radio's capabilities while allowing other sources to suffer.
     
    #12 rjparker, Aug 15, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  13. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I have been in email conversation with the discountcarstereo.com folks. Your identification of the new "U shaped" connector as "HFC II" is extremely helpful. Hmm "HFC2 "vs "HFC II" that won't be confusing...

    To solve my current problem of a Broken GPS antenna, I will buy a temporary cheap replacement on Amazon that will hopefully have an "HFC II" connector to fit my old unit. If I need to, I will cut the connector off the broken GPS antenna, and splice it to the temporary GPS antenna. I wish I could find the purchase info on the one I broke, but eBay only keeps purchase history for two years. I need this antenna in the next day or two.

    To prepare for the newer unit I have yet to buy, I will need both the GPS antenna (with "HFC2"), and an aftermarket XM antenna (with "HFC II"). It sounds like I will have less than optimal XM performance with just the aftermarket antenna. I am OK with not having a usable signal for music in Center City where all the tall buildings are. I won't be using talk radio channels, so drop-outs are only a little annoying, instead of a deal breaker.

    If I need to upgrade to the full Toyota Antenna to get a satisfactory XM signal in my 2013 two, then I see 3 choices:
    - Give up on XM until I am forced to retire the 2013 in two years.
    - Acquire and install a used OEM antenna with the 3 coax cables.
    - Give up on my plan to use the 2013 two as my primary rideshare vehicle until it reaches retirement at 150k and 10 years old in 2023, and start using the 2017 as my primary (which is currently my wife's car and "backup" rideshare vehicle).

    I have noticed this delay. In my neighborhood, there is road on a steep hill with an old Trolley overpass halfway down the hill. When driving the 2017 four, the XM signal cuts out five seconds after I have cleared the overpass.

    Here in Philly, there is the Vine Street Expressway, and a short section of I-95 that have been "roofed over" for fairly long sections to hide these expressways (more than a five second buffer can handle). I can live with that, since FM radio is also affected by those "roof overs". I imagine there are terrestrial transmitters in those places. Again, I won't be using talk radio.

    I am not Ubering again until Tuesday so I will try to buy what I need today (Sunday).


    THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP! @rjparker! Identifying the connectors is a huge help.
     
  14. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I found a GPS antenna with this connector on Amazon delivered Tomorrow for $13:

    Navigation Radio Compatible with Toyota Honda Nissan
    GPSConnetor-GT5-1S.jpg



    My broken GPS's connector:

    BrokenGPSConn01.jpg BrokenGPSConn02.jpg
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    HFC2 is my shorthand for HFC-II
     
  16. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    For some reason, PriusChat does not correctly insert Amazon Links for me:

    This is the antenna that is coming tomorrow:


    If no link appears, search for amazon ID: B08DFS71QF
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Both links worked. Priuschat is a little sluggish. Looks like a little trimming will get things working and get you to the right house.
     
  18. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    BTW: for when the new 510057 unit arrives, the GPS connector will look like the following photo (different from the 57011). Is that SMB or some variant? This is from an ebay listing, and the left connector is the OEM Plug from an OEM antenna (post 2014), and the right Connector is what is on the end of the Aftermarket GPS antenna being sold.

    I am hoping to find either an adapter, or a cheaper aftermarket adapter. I am assuming that the same connector will be found on the XM socket of the 510057. I am guessing that will be SMB also?

    GPS-Connector.jpg
    AftermarketGPSAntennaConnectorOnEbay.JPG
     
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