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Alcool won't save money (or E85)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by etyler88, May 22, 2006.

  1. etyler88

    etyler88 etyler88

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    Just FYI

    Brazil Alcool, the name for their ethanol fuel, sells for about $2-2.50 a gallon. Plus the fuel has less energy in it than gas so your mpg will go down; my guess is it will drop 10-20%. And they have the cheapest form of ethanol from sugar cane. So unless there is a major breakthrough to make ethanol from waste plant debris (I'll believe it when I see it) E85 is not going to save money at the pump.

    E85 is more expensive than gas too.
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/e...-e85-usat_x.htm
     
    #1 etyler88, May 22, 2006
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Ok...I can live with that. This sounds like the same lame "Hybrids cost isn't justified" type articles.
    The point of Ethanol isn't to save money TODAY, it's to reduce dependence on fossil fuels, reduce toxic emissions, and reduce our dependence on imported oil, and to be prepared for the inevitable increase in fossil fuel costs on the not-so-distant horizon.

    Yes, we need better technology. We need better corn hybrids that will be better for making ethanol. Yes we need more vehicles that can run on ethanol. But if we don't start now when, exactly, would you suggest we start?
     
    #2 efusco, May 22, 2006
  3. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 22 2006, 02:12 PM) [snapback]259285[/snapback]</div>
    Part of the problem is that the American car companies are pushing E85 so that they can keep on selling their gas guzzlers. We need to start with the emphasis on conservation, regardless of which type of energy is being used.
     
    #3 JackDodge, May 22, 2006
  4. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ May 22 2006, 01:46 PM) [snapback]259337[/snapback]</div>
    Yes Jack, but that's far too obvious. We would import far less oil without any changes to our fuel infrastructure or vehicle designs if we used less fuel (via efficiency gains and reduced usage). Unfortunately, for many people that means a sacrifice (albiet, very small ones) of one kind or another.
     
    #4 tripp, May 22, 2006
  5. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 22 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]259350[/snapback]</div>
    That's true. Jimmy Carter attempted to get Americans to conserve and look where it got him, voted out of office. Still, a real leader might be able to get the gluttons in this country to see the wisdom of conserving. Of course, expecting a real leader from the Washington crowd is like going to K-Mart expecting to find a really fine suit :lol:
     
    #5 JackDodge, May 22, 2006
  6. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    is there really enough water avaliable to grow all this bio-mass without affecting your drinking water supplies? Probably not.
     
    #6 Frank Hudon, May 22, 2006
  7. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ May 22 2006, 05:07 PM) [snapback]259426[/snapback]</div>
    No. That's why cellulose ethanol is the only real answer in the ethanol paradigm. Not only water but soil quality. Corn is very hard on the soil as well as being a very thirsty plant. We generate enough agricultural waste to produce enough ethanol to displace about 30% of our oil consumption. If we transition to much more efficient vehicles we could cut our oil consumption to a small fraction of what we consume now. That's, unfortuneately, a big if. If we redesigned engines to run exclusively I bet we could negate a lot of the energy density penalty. If butanol is really an answer we should look in that direction since it's superior to ethanol in a lot of ways.
     
    #7 tripp, May 22, 2006
  8. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    If all you're looking for is cheap fuel, you're hosed. Sorry, the
    free ride is over, and getting off of it is gonna hurt a bit.
    .
    _H*
     
    #8 hobbit, May 22, 2006
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