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Almanac question

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, May 29, 2010.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I've just begun reading Day of the Jackal. The book begins by describing a failed assassination attempt against Charles de Gaulle. It says that the attempt failed because the prime planner consulted the wrong year's almanac: Supposedly the 1961 almanac for August 22 for Paris put sunset at 8:35 p.m., and he counted on his signal to the gunmen being visible, but that in 1962 sunset was at 8:10 p.m. on that day and place, and therefore his signal could not be seen, and the gunmen were taken by surprise when the motorcade arrived. (The year was 1962 but the fellow planning the attempt had consulted the previous year's almanac.)

    My question: Is it actually possible that on two successive years at the same place on the same date, sunset would differ by 25 minutes? It seems to me it cannot.

    Am I missing something? Or was the author ignorant of planetary physics? Or was the real point that the 1961 almanac contained an error?
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm with you, it cannot change that much. While moonset easily changes much more than that, sunset can't more than about 3 minutes, and even that only if one of the years in question is a leap year.

    My almanac app indicates sunset in Paris as 8:54 pm in 1960, 8:56 in 1961, 8:56 in 1962.
     
  3. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    I think... yes. Thus we have leap year to "reset" the calendar. A real year is 365.25~ days, so from one exact date to the next year's same date, you would have a real difference in sunrise/sunset times.

    We also have leap centuries, to make up the stray difference that leap year doesn't.
     
  4. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    What a great question. I'm trying to find out the details, since you are right on the physics. Unless France dorked around with the time zones (and no clues to that this is true), the answer has to be in the sources of information....but what source?
     
  5. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    A leap year and/or a different change of daylight savings time would make a difference of either a few minutes and/or an hour and a few minutes, but I can't think of anything that would make it change by a half hour (besides, 1962 wasn't a leap year).
     
  6. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    As Stev0 says, neither of those was a leap year, and a time-zone change or daylight savings time alteration would make a full hour's difference.

    So either the author has his science wrong, or he is saying that the 1961 almanac the conspirator was using contained an error. He does not name the almanac.

    Differences due to the approximately quarter-day difference between 365 and a full year would make a difference of a few seconds or a minute in the time of sunset. It would essentially be 25% of the difference between time of sunset on two successive days at that time of year.
     
  7. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    At this rate, it's going to take you a long time to finish the book. :rolleyes:
     
  8. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    French sunsets are controlled by the same organization that controls France's public transportation. The Sun was on strike at that time in 1962. Well, not really a strike, but a work slowdown.

    Tom
     
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  9. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    True. If you get this bothered by one simple plot hole, you'd get a brain aneurysm reading The Da Vinci Code.
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I read a review of The Da Vinci Code. It's on my list of books to avoid. Apparently it's not only a stupid book, but it's badly written as well. I don't mind plot holes in well-written books. Some of Shakespeare's plots are dreadful, not to mention dishonest history, but the language is so wonderful we can forgive the story lines. I recently read The Host by Stephenie Meyer, and there are some serious storyline defects, but Meyer is a wonderful story-teller, so I don't mind.

    But the idea of sunset being 25 minutes off from one year to the next is just so peculiar! How can anyone be so ignorant?

    It's raining outside! Just thought I'd mention it. I like the rain as long as I'm indoors and don't have to go anywhere.
     
  11. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    That's what makes it a good micro-mystery. In the couple of hours I've been trying to solve it I found out:
    1) The car was going ~70 mph, so there really was a critical delay when the shooting started.
    2) All the present tools indicate a sunset time of 8:50 something, so both almanacs, if real, are strangely out of step.
    3) The assassination attempt was real, with the book intelligently using the real event for a build up, so there really would be no need for the author to corrupt minor details.

    So at least I will be interested in what the actual reason is.
     
  12. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    Funny, I read a review of Twilight and it's on MY list of books to avoid.
     
  13. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    In my world, vampires do NOT sparkle in the sunlight. They burst into flames.

    I really like Patricia Briggs for light reading.
     
  14. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    People either love or hate the Twilight series. (Check out the reader reviews on Amazon.) Those who hate it generally focus on the neurotic teenage heroine who is totally emotionally dependent on the handsome vampire. It is politically incorrect to depict teenage girls in popular literature aimed at teens as needing a man for emotional health and stability. You are supposed to portray girls as capable, strong, and independent.

    Those who love the series focus on the inspired story-telling ability of the author. The stories are inventive, original, exciting, and very well told. The love triangle (girl, vampire, and wolf-man) is compelling and (except for the supernatural components) believable.

    The story is fantasy, and some folks do not like fantasy. The heroine is not an admirable person and is definitely not a desirable role model. But neither is Juliette a desirable role model, falling in love with a man three times her age and then killing herself over him! But the Twilight series is fun, exciting, and a very enjoyable read.

    I said there are "holes" in Meyer's books, and her revisionist vampires are such a hole. Vampires do not exist, but in popular culture they cannot endure sunlight, and they drink human blood, infecting their victims with insanity, or else killing or transforming them into vampires. I dislike Meyer's revisionism regarding vampires, but her story-telling is so good that I overlook that, just as I overlook the fact that zombies do not exist when I watch a good zombie movie. ("I'm the only one that ever loved you. PLEASE let me eat your brains!" -- One of the zombies in Return of the Living Dead, speaking to his former girlfriend.)

    Thanks for the Patricia Briggs suggestion. I've downloaded the sample of one of her books to my Kindle and will check it out.
     
  15. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I've recently discovered four more books in Robert Ludlum's Bourne trilogy, ;) written by Eric Van Lustbader. I'd say they're the equal of the originals, though I wish they took longer than a day to read.
     
  16. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I actually was going to read a Twilight book but then suddenly remembered I wasn't a preteen girl.
     
  17. Prius101

    Prius101 Paid off Prius Member

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    I actually got the twilight books from my daughter and read the first one and part of the second one. Very good writing, but I finally got tired of the teenage angst. Went through that with my own daughter and ended up getting tired of it in the books. But a lot of teenagers really do identify with it, I guess.
     
  18. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    A bunch of girls were watching one of the movies in the series on a DVD in a family get together. As I stopped and watched, I noticed a vast number of things that were out of the "norm" for movies.
    1) The movie had the guys parading around without shirts but the gals were fully clothed the whole time I was watching. How common is that?
    2) The girl was never screamed at or mistreated in the segments I saw (even though conflict is a necessity in any drama). Not the usual treatment for teenage geared movies.
    3) When I asked one of my nieces what they liked about the movie, her answer was the girl had to choose between the two "perfect" boyfriends. The vampire/wolf-man part was not the core draw..

    I actually can understand the popularity. Obviously, it comes across to me as another variation on the vampire theme, but one that is unusual in the treatment of the girl as a person rather than an object.
     
  19. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Nor am I. But I enjoyed the series. You don't have to be a pre-teen girl to enjoy them. You only have to enjoy action fantasy and well-told stories. If you read the reviews on Amazon you will see that many of the positive reviews come from adults. The sub-set of feminists who hate men will hate the books, and some folks will disapprove of the political incorrectness of a story involving an emotionally weak and dependent girl.

    FWIW, the author's other book, The Host, stars two very strong female characters, Melanie and Wanderer.
     
  20. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Meyer's plots are very original. The plot of The Host is even more original, revolving around two "persons" inhabiting the same body: the alien "body snatcher" who's been inserted into the body, and the person whose body it was, and who refuses to disappear, leading to a constant dialog between the two, and eventually a strong bond of friendship, and finally a selfless act of self-sacrifice. All within the context of the struggle of the few remaining humans to avoid capture by the aliens who have almost completely taken over the earth.

    If you like fantasy adventure, this is top rate.