Am I stupid for not getting VSC?

Well, my wife and I bought a vanilla 07 Prius with no VSC. Personally, I think VSC is good for a car like a Lincoln Navigator, which is very apt to flip over and over in an emergency manuver situation on the freeway. I don't feel the Prius has this tendancy, and since it comes standard with anti-lock brakes and electronic brake force distribution, it should do well in an emergency situation.

I'm not totally sold on VSC for all cars, some need it more than others. I say the Prius doesn't need it as much as SUV's do.

Dave

 

Basically, all safety features are like insurances. You see them as waste of money until you really need them. The question comes down to how much you are willing to pay for them. Personally, I wouldn't buy any vehicles w/o VSC. It is now standard on all Honda vehciles. I hope Toyota follow Honda soon for everyone's sake.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ceric @ Nov 25 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]354110[/snapback]</div>

I agree. I went for every safety feature offered. I've never really needed VSC yet, but I've tried braking on ice when no other vehicles are around, and I find that the car tracks perfectly straight. Any other car I've had where I've applied the brakes on ice, would invariably veer sideways. I feel a lot more secure having it.


Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Nov 25 2006, 08:39 PM) [snapback]354113[/snapback]</div>

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I like CEREC & DMCKINSTRY's thinking! The only exception might be for the few who can accurately foresee all situations. Otherwise how is a guy to know what is around the next corner. Not surprisingly, unexpected dangerous conditions often lead to ACCIDENTS! That is when you might desparately wish for every safety feature known to man!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Nov 25 2006, 08:05 PM) [snapback]354107[/snapback]</div>

Boy, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread. Unfortunately my Z dosen't have it nor did any of my previous cars. :/ My Prius has it though.

I would disagree w/the statement "Someone said that Prius's are not safe without VSC". I would say it helps w/any vehicle.

ABS and electronic brake force distribution help you when stopping and dmckinstry's test was a test of ABS. All vehicles have their handling limits. Stability control helps you keep your car under control in abrubt maneuvers and to keep it in the direction you're intending it to go (to correct for understeer and oversteer).

You can see a video clip of it in action at http://abcnews.go.com/search?searchtext=st...&type=video (look at "Auto Safety Device Widely Heralded"). Unfortunately, they don't seem to have a more dramatic clip of a Hyundai or Kia medium sized car that was even more out of control w/ESC off (and perfectly fine with) which was broadcast originally [whoops I think that broadcast was on The Early Show not ABC's GMA]. Another video w/a good demo is at http://cbs5.com/consumer/consumer_story_256222007.html.

There's another demo video at https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...r-206/index.htm (look in the upper right) of both ABS and stability control.

Edit: Found the Kia sedan video! Go to http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/13/...in2005476.shtml and click on "New Automative Safety Device" on the right side. The test was only at 45 mph.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Nov 26 2006, 12:25 AM) [snapback]354141[/snapback]</div>

I actually should have known better, as I had read up on VSC before ordering my Prius, but of course that was back in August of '05. However, even in that test the little "skid icon" came on. That is, wavy tracks.

I don't think I want to really test VSC at highway speeds, but I suppose the next time it's icy I should find an empty parking lot to see what it does when I "jerk" the steering wheel in a simulated "panic" situtation.

Dave M.

 

I've only had my Prius for about 8 months, and a coupla times during rainy weather the VSC has kicked on when splashing through puddling in the road. I've been happy to have it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ceric @ Nov 25 2006, 11:25 PM) [snapback]354110[/snapback]</div>

I don't think Honda now has it standard on all their vehicles. To get it on an Accord you have to get the V6 models as the I4's don't have it. To get it on the Civic you would have to buy the SI. And I don't think the Fit has it either. All V6's have it, like the Ody, the Pilot, the Ridgeline and the mentioned Accords. The Element, S2000 and the new CRV have it too. Honda calls it VSA. And on the models without it standard, its not offered as part of a package, unless you want to consider upgrading to a V6 or in the case of the Civic to a SI as a package. I do think Honda has side airbags standard on all models now, which maybe is what you meant. But Toyota also has them standard on all Prius for 07, don't know about other models.

My 06 Accord is an I4, doesn't have VSA, and I hadn't thought much about it. I bought the Prius (pkg#2) a few months before the crash ratings came out. If I had known the crash ratings beforehand I would have gotten an option that included VSC and side airbags. But I'm not rushing out to replace it with a 07. Here in FL, it seems many drivers think that 5 to 7 cars are allowed to go through an intersection after the light turns red. I'm most concerned about getting T-boned by one of these drivers and I don't think VSC would help much, but the side airbags would (maybe). Looking both ways and not being in a hurry myself is the best insurance for this. I might trade it when the warranty is about over, especially if there is an improved Prius or something else I like, like a hybrid minivan. The Accord may be the one to go first as its not as much fun to drive as the Prius.

 

Car safety experts say that VSC is the most important safety feature to come along since seatbelts. I won't buy a car without it.

Toyota, in my opinion, is remiss in not providing this important safety feature as standard equipment. This and side/head airbags should be mandatory. It's a shame that those who can least afford serious injury are those who must buy the entry level car, the car that's most likely to have seriously injured occupants in it as a result of an accident.

 

I drive my car fairly agressively, and have never seen the light come on. In 40 years of driving, I've never had a situation that I couldn't steer out of or around due to not having VSC. Its on my car, but so far haven't seen the use of it. I do find the traction control to be oppressive, though. Your mileage may vary......

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(subarutoo @ Dec 1 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]356381[/snapback]</div>

I'd also be willing to bet that the vast majority of Priuschat members have never had an airbag go off and never will. So why waste your money on them, just drive carefully, right?

Yes, I do think it was a bad decision (if purposely made) to not get the VSC to save a few hundred bucks. VSC cannot overcome the laws of physics but it may help you in a situation in which no human could regain control of a vehicle in an emergency situation.

The European Union has explored the possibility that all cars sold under their jurisdiction be equipped with VSC. And you can be sure the US will follow suit soon. In many circles VSC has been hailed as the most important car safety development since the advent of airbags.

Accidents usually happen within a few seconds or less. Volkswagen has a great commercial showing a group of people riding in a Jetta chit chatting, driving safely, and BAM! in an instant their car is totaled. But they walk away because of the airbags and other safety features Volkswagen incorporates in their automobiles.

Yea, I too will probably never see the VSC light, deploy my airbags, or use antiskid to avoid an accident and hope not too either. But you never know...

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Dec 1 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]356408[/snapback]</div>

Well, I don't really know if VSC was involved in my wife's near accident this afternoon. I wasn't looking at the dash and was too busy concentrating on the crash I was sure was about to happen to listen for any beeping. Unless beeping continues awhile or I'm specifically listening for it, I rarely hear it.

We were traveling down a through street on hard packed (at least well traveled on snow, but no road visible) when a pickup ran a stopsign from a side street. We were within 20 feet of the intersection when we saw what was about to happen. My wife managed to steer to the right around the corner with virtually no warning and didn't lose control at all. At least I don't think she did. No skidding or sliding and at least we came to rest around the corner. We weren't planning on turning until several blocks later. Fortunately the idiot who ran the sign steered into the other lane and there was no collision. I say idiot, because I don't think he even tried to stop at the sign.

We were both shaken. I claimed (at least for my wife's benefit) that we wouldn't have made it without the VSC.

Dave M.

 

The combination of abs, vsc, and tc creates an automobile that generally operates more safely for 99% of the drivers on the road. Ultimately this technology reduces accidents, especially in a single car scenario where environmental conditions are a contributing factor.

The problem that I have with these technological features is that drivers are less aware of the road conditions. If the car does not skid to a stop, does not spin the tires under acceleration, and does not skid in a turn, then the average driver thinks they are driving just fine for the conditions. Ultimately this will create more "accident likely" scenarios, but perhaps with less catastrophic conclusions.

I can find very little reason to fault the technology or the benefits of it, provided drivers are educated as to how it works, why it works, and their driver training is targeted to explain how to avoid hazardous situations that can be created by the new technologies. However this training is not happening in every day life and so I fear for the next couple of decades we will have an increase in near accidents while the travelling public adjusts to the newer features.

Traction control I believe is the most dangerous, while abs and vsc are only dangerous to a person with professional driving skills. Each vehicle should come with the ability to disable these technolies individually to compensate for the different driving abilities of the traveller.

If a person drives a car without traction control, and without abs and vsc, and they get stuck in their driveway and skid down to the street, then they simplu should not be driving on that day. The technology compensates for this lack of judgement thereby placing more unqualified drivers on the road in hazardous conditions. Personally, this idea of people who cannot drive well thinking they are safe scares the crap out of me.

 

Glad I got it, wife has it as well on her town car,wouldnt leave home without it,also, I feel the side air bags are just as important when considering safety features.......

 

The only thing I would worry about is drivers getting more aggressive, since they now have a security blanket: abs, vsc, airbags etc. They will feel that nothing will happen, or if something does happen, it will be minor.

This afternoon on the drive from work some idiot in a Durango SUV missed a young woman in a pedestrian crosswalk by inches. He was really blasting along, the flashing lights came on, and he didn't have a hope in hell of stopping in time. There was a dumptruck in the far right lane so the woman didn't see the danger until she stepped out. I cringed, expecting the worse.

The a-hole then had the nerve to flip her off, honk, and blast away. Too bad I was stuck at a red light ...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Locust43 @ Nov 25 2006, 10:59 PM) [snapback]354102[/snapback]</div>

I was going to be a dissenting voice in a discussion that otherwise praised VSC, without bothering to do the homework. I had figured that VSC may well be like ABS was -- large, predicted theoretic reduction in accidents, but on the road, little or no actual (insurer-based) evidence of accident reduction.

Then I decided to do my homework. Here's a nutshell description of theory and evidence as of 2004.
http://www.frost.com/prod/servlet/market-i...?docid=26831241

OK, I appear to have been wrong.

As much as really dislike the Prius' brakes -- the pause in braking action at slow speed as the friction brakes take over from the regen braking, the jerk at the end as that happens in wet weather, but mostly the heart-stopping moments when all braking cuts out momentarily as ABS/VSC/TCS overrides the brakes in response to some trivial bump in the road (e.g., a pothole) -- I suppose I shouldn't damn the concept just because I'm not very fond of the Prius' particular implementation of it.

On the other hand, it's always reasonable to understand that, if you dont' drive drunk, don't speed, wear your seatbelt, and drive primarily in an urban area, your risks of dying from natural causes are probably much higher than your risks from dying in a passenger car accident. In other words, the actual marginal improvement in your overall safety, from VSC, maybe quite small.

If you look at car accident death statistics in detail, throw out the drunks, speeders, motorcyclists, and those not wearing seatbelts, there are more pedestrians killed by cars then there are (sober, law-abiding, seatbelt-wearing) vehicle occupants killed by cars. (Obviously, this being America, the population of people in cars dwarfs the population of people on foot, but the point is still that traveling by car is remarkably safe if you drive in a safe manner.) For my case, I estimate that the likelihood of death in a vehicle crash, for my risk factors, is about 1 per 100,000 per year (maybe as high as 2/100,000, depending on assumptions); whereas the mortality rate for all causes for my age bracket (male, 48) is about 500 per 100,000 per year. The most optimistic estimate for the effect of VSC is about a 35% reduction in crashes, and I'd be willing to bet (with no evidence) that VSC-avoided crashes are far more common among people who tend to drive the car in ways that will challenge the limits of safety and stability anyway (the "yellow light means accelerate" crowd), as opposed to those who drive in a more mellow fashion. So I'd estimate my net risk reduction, from VSC, given how I drive, at less than 0.35 deaths per 100,000 per year. Or less than 0.1% of my overall risk-of-mortality during any given year.

The upshot of this long-winded discussion is that for me, the net benefit of VSC is so small that it simply doesn't enter my decision making. In other words, I have far more important risks to worry about. Yeah, I guess it's OK. If it's free, I'll take it. No, I wouldn't (and didn't) make my Prius purchase dependent on having VSC. (I have it, but don't care.) I certainly wouldn't trade an existing car because it lacked VSC.

This is not to trivialize the issue, just to put it into perspective. Obviously, your preferences and risk factors will differ from mine. Evidence suggests that it's a clear safety improvement. But then again, so is buying a large, heavy, well-designed gas-guzzling vehicle (e.g., a Volvo). I wasn't afraid to move from a Volvo to a Prius. I wouldn't fear driving a Prius without VSC.