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An interesting read on soldiers in Iraq and abuse.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by F8L, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I find this an interesting read.


    From the makers of A Peaceable Kingdom:


    "Dear friends,

    As Jenny and I work in our studio editing the new Peaceable Kingdom, it
    has been powerful and instructive to follow the discussion of the recently posted internet video depicting soldiers abusing a dog in Iraq. I recently
    watched this video and wanted to share some thoughts.

    As I read Harold's post, I saw something of myself. Though not a farmer, like him, I was socialized as a traditional male in a rural community. I shot birds with my bb gun, and I caught and killed fish. I watched, cried, and tried to intervene as my brother and his friends caught and killed the frogs that lived in the stream behind my house. I myself caught and thoughtlessly gassed beautiful butterflies for my insect collection. I wept when my dog was struck and killed by a passing bus. An egg farm at the end of a dead end street in my town imprisoned thousands of chickens, and the only time I gave them a thought was when the shed doors were thrown open at night and the noxious odor of their confinement offended my nostrils. I was laughed at for being poor, and laughed at those who were poorer than me. And throughout my childhood years, what was the favorite game of me and my friends? It was a game called "war." We would practice developing our strategies, hiding and stalking, and spent endless afternoons making wooden guns. We threw stones or socks filled with sand at each other as make believe hand grenades. We bound the hands of our "prisoners" with baling twine and marched them around at the points of our toy rifles, all of it done with childish enthusiasm, and absolutely no understanding of what this game was all about.

    Are all these things connected? I think they are.

    This video from Iraq depicts a kind of violence common to traditional male
    culture in the US. Probably one person instigated it, and others followed
    along, either afraid to be seen as sensitive or weak, or similarly caught up in the ritualized domination through which men are taught to work out their pain, fear and insecurity. I can say for sure that I, and most men who grew
    up in rural environments, have either witnessed or participated in similar
    situations involving vulnerable humans or nonhumans. And I suspect those
    from suburban and urban backgrounds have their own tales to tell.

    I remember, for example, watching as a boyhood friend took a fish he had
    caught and burned him alive with a road flare. My friend was angry he said,
    because the fish was the wrong kind, not good for eating. I was maybe
    12, and did nothing to stop him, though I well knew what was happening was
    wrong and was repelled by it. I also remember watching members of a high
    school athletic team repeatedly catch and throw a terrified mouse against a
    wall, laughing uproariously as she squeaked and ran for her life. Once again,
    I did nothing to intervene. Why? I was afraid, and rightly so. Were I to
    be perceived as emotionally vulnerable, I could easily become the focus of
    that same destructive energy. How did I know this? Because I had seen it
    happen many times to others. What is not obvious from the outside is that most situations of this nature offer three roles: victim, victimizer, and
    bystander. It takes extraordinary courage, and self-possession, to make
    another choice, to successfully intervene.

    Having met many people in my life, I must admit that I have encountered
    a handful that seemed utterly consumed by violent, dishonest, or
    exploitative tendencies. One of them was a serial rapist at the county jail where where I worked as a counselor. Others have been "successful" people involved in corporate life, and a few have even been people celebrated for their charitable endeavors. My encounters with such individuals have been
    chilling, and sobering. One academic researcher on this subject at
    Harvard, for example, determined that up to one in twenty-five Americans has
    sociopathic tendencies, operating day to day without the emotional/ethical
    connection to others that we call "conscience." Such individuals regularly and without any sense of inner conflict commit acts that nearly everyone
    would consider destructive and socially deviant, often in clever ways
    that conceal their true intent. The presence of such individuals in all walks
    of life raises troubling questions for psychologists, educators,
    philosophers theologians, and really, anyone who has been unlucky enough to be the focus of their attention.

    Perhaps one or more of the young men in the video were true sociopaths.
    But they just as easily might not have been. A few years after college, I had close friendships with two men who had been to war on behalf of this country. One had fought in World War II, at one point helping liberate a concentration camp. The other fought in the jungles of Vietnam. These men were two of the kindest, most ethical people I have known. Both had experienced the savage horror of combat. Both had come face to face with "the enemy," and both had taken human life. And both, decades
    after the fact, were daily haunted by what they had seen and done. I
    remember one telling me about having to crawl down a street strewn with
    severed human heads while being shot at by a sniper in a tower, and
    another, of ripping the company insignia off his shoulder and pinning it with a
    sharp stick to the body of a man he had killed, the man who was had been
    trying to kill him.

    Both have struggled their whole adult lives to find peace through public
    service, anti-war activism, and therapy. Through them, I got to know several
    other combat veterans, and as different as their stories were, the nature of
    the burden they carried was strikingly similar. They had been called by
    their country to serve in a time of crisis. They had been conditioned to
    take orders. They had been trained to kill. They had been sent to a foreign
    land and submerged in a level of mayhem, misery and torture that
    completely overwhelmed any moral or ethical training they may have received during their upbringing. They witnessed and participated in the most desperate, horrific, and chaotic dimensions of the human experience--mass violence. Then they came home to a society that did not want to hear about or accept what they had seen and done, and what had been done to them. They were left alone to try and make sense of their experience.

    So what have they taught me? First, that even the best of people, if put
    in the worst of circumstances, might find themselves tormenting, maiming,
    and killing others. And that when faced with the mayhem of war, something
    inside of human beings breaks apart. We tend to become fearful, enraged,
    disconnected, and disoriented, literally losing ourselves in a form of collective madness.

    Are each of us 100% responsible for every act we commit? I personally
    believe we are. But is it realistic to expect 18 to 20 year old youths
    immersed in the insanity of war to maintain ethical clarity and psychological health? Can even fully mature adults remain completely sane in such an environment? If historical accounts are to be believed, the answer is no.

    Responsibility for the taking of an animal's life at a slaughterhouse
    weighs not just on the person wielding the knife, but also on the manager of
    the slaughterhouse, the president of the meat corporation, the stockholders,
    the ad agencies, the land grant universities, the people who buy and eat the
    meat, and ultimately, every single one of us who pays the taxes that subsidize the meat industry, buys food at the grocery stores that sell meat,
    and takes part in myriad other ways in the system that supports the
    exploitation of others. So, I believe, it goes with war. Those who do
    the killing and dying are at the end of a long chain of cause and effect. If
    you follow the connections back far enough, every one of us has done, or not
    done, something that has contributed to the situation playing out day
    after day in Iraq. And just the same, every one of us is being damaged and
    diminished by the violence of the war, violence done in the name of the
    society to which we belong.

    So my heart aches for that poor defenseless dog, wounded, cruelly
    tormented and mocked in his misery. And my heart aches just the same for those young soldiers, who, like my veteran friends, have been placed by our society in an impossible situation that will likely cast a shadow over them, and
    their families, for life. And it aches for the people and especially the
    children of Iraq, whose formative experiences will have been an endless sequence of heinous misfortunes. And it aches for all of us not directly caught up in the day to day insanity of this and every war, those who look on with horror, but haven't yet found the wisdom or the strength to make it
    stop.

    Jenny and I started Tribe of Heart because we wanted to explore the path
    of nonviolence, because we wanted to see if we could shift the balance of
    our lives toward doing less harm and offering greater service to others. We
    are now coming close to ten years into this path.

    During this period of my life, many of the people who have taught me the
    most, and who, in my eyes, give most freely to the betterment of the
    world, at some earlier point of their lives brought suffering, and even death,
    into the lives of others on a scale beyond that which I have personally known. In coming to understand a little about their lives, I cannot say that I
    have found any evidence that I myself would not have done as they did had I grown up the same way and found myself in the same circumstances.

    *cont*

    Anger is a natural response to injustice, but it is in learning to
    transform our feelings of anger and helplessness into deeper understanding,
    greater patience, and creative, nonviolent action that we gain the possibility
    of turning things around. To do so we need to help each other every day,
    because the state of the world, and the momentum of our own mental
    habits, is overwhelming. Choosing to refrain from judging those caught up in
    violence is not incompatible with taking strong action to intervene on
    behalf of those being harmed and/or preventing future violence. In fact,
    many would say that transforming the cycle of violence actually requires
    this of us. Otherwise, our intervention is likely to be ineffective, or
    lamentably, even make things worse.

    For those who have been deeply affected by this tragic incident involving
    the young soldiers and the dog, I encourage you, if you are not already
    doing so, to learn about and join in supporting peace and anti-war
    organizations devoted to ending present wars as well as preventing
    future wars. I also recommend the viewing of two powerful films, The Deer
    Hunter, and The Ground Truth, one a fiction film about the Vietnam war, and one a documentary about our soldiers in Iraq. Together, they show the process through which young people lose, and then struggle to regain their
    wholeness and humanity in the aftermath of war.

    With gratitude and respect,

    James

    Recommended viewing:

    The Ground Truth, directed by Patricia Foulkrod 2006 Documentary (Note:
    preview gives excellent sense of the movie)

    http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?moviei...9530&strkid
    =1135100840_0_0

    The Deer Hunter, directed by Michael Chimino 1978 Dramatic film (Note: dated
    preview doesn't do the movie justice)

    http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?moviei...837>6993_0_0

    /end quote
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Though I may not have said this before on Prius Chat, one of the reasons I oppose war is what it does to the survivors, on both sides, that is, our own men and women who return to civilian life after having been trained to kill, a training which is as much psychological as physical, since most people have a strong aversion to killing human beings, and this aversion must be destroyed if you are to make a good soldier.

    War not only destroys the land upon which it is fought, but it seriously damages the people forced to travel to far-away lands to fight it. Our government ignores the financial cost of the war, but it also ignores the psychological cost, to our soldiers and our society, of imposing the brutality of training and the horrors of war upon so many of our young men and women.

    To anyone who has not read F8L's post all the way through, I strongly recommend taking the time to do so. It is a sensitive essay that will be appreciated even by people who disagree with my conclusions.
     
  3. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 10 2007, 04:28 PM) [snapback]388198[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you Daniel. I know it is a long essay but like you stated, it is well worth the time spent reading it.

    This reminds me of how we cripple people in so many ways throughout our society, cripple them with poor stories (worldviews):

    "Perhaps the more tragic recognition of reality took place when it became clear to me that the war was doing far more than devastating the hopes of the poor at home. It was sending their sons and their brothers and their husbands to fight and to die in extraordinarily high proportions relative to the rest of the population. We were taking the black young men who had been crippled by our society and sending them eight thousand miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia which they had not found in southwest Georgia and East Harlem. So we have been repeatedly faced with the cruel irony of watching Negro and white boys on TV screens as they kill and die together for a nation that has been unable to seat them together in the same schools. So we watch them in brutal solidarity burning the huts of a poor village, but we realize that they would never live on the same block in Detroit. I could not be silent in the face of such cruel manipulation of the poor.

    My third reason moves to an even deeper level of awareness, for it grows out of my experience in the ghettoes of the North over the last three years -- especially the last three summers. As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent. - "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence" By Rev. Martin Luther King April 4th 1967


    Have we learned nothing?
     
  4. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    I have not had a chance to read F8L's post (yet), but just the mention of abusing dogs for pleasure is disturbing under any circumstances. Many of you have heard one of the red flags for future murders is animal abuse - this makes you doubt the soldiers in question will shoot solely in self-defense or strictly under the Rules of Engagement.

    I'm not a vegetarian as Daniel is, but it might be worthwhile to consider the effects of the general population eating so much meat. Stuff like debeaked chickens in standing room only to keep the fast food restaurants going.

    Meat is calorie-dense relative to vegetables. I make platlet blood donations every 1-2 weeks and get a total cholestrol count a few days later. I can tell from the count which weeks I ate more salads.

    It takes more land to feed the same amount of people with livestock as crops, plus cattle belch with methane.

    Just stuff to consider.

    Getting off the tangent and back to on-topic - wanton killing is never right.
     
  5. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I'm sorry but I can't bear to look at the video or read about the abuse of a dog (or anything else, for that matter.)

    So I'm posting the story of some marines who saved a puppy and hid it even though it was against orders. They arranged to get it out of Iraq and one of the marines adopted it.

    YouTube From Bagdad with Love

    Puppy rescued from Fallujah

    Marines rescue Lava the Dog.

    BTW cruelty to animals does not have to be related to soldiers in war.

    Deputies in New Orleans were entertaining themselves shooting dogs. They claim for health and safety. But that doesn't explain the family pets locked in a schoolhouse that were gut-shot. You don't shoot dogs in the stomach when you're doing mercy killing. The dogs were obviously running, trying to escape the shooting. There were cartridges all over the floor. They were police issue. The doors of these rooms were littered with messages from the owners forced to leave their family pets. "The beagle is Missy, She is a good dog, Please don't kill her." Food littered the floor so the dogs weren't starving, mad, a health or safety hazard. The dogs must have been killed shortly after their owners were forced to leave them since the animal rescue people arrived at the scene of the carnage a few days after the evacuation to find the bodies. It was good old boys having a little Saturday night fun gut-shooting dogs to watch them suffer. Maybe it was retaliation because the owners gave them trouble about leaving their animals.

    One was a service dog for a deaf woman.

    And don't tell me these deputies suffered from the trauma of New Orleans or were shell-shocked in any way. The apparent cruelty was a result of....boredom.

    Two have finally been indicted for shooting dogs in the streets. Authorities are still working on the school shootings. (I don't see why they can't just pull fingerprints off of the cartridges. There were enough of them and all police officers have fingerprints on file.)

    History
     
  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    The post doesn't really focus on descriptions of the abuse in question. It is based on our society norms push us to act in such ways. It is not bashing the soldiers because they are soldiers, it is an internal analysis of what we are all capable of given the wrong upbringing.
     
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 10 2007, 04:52 PM) [snapback]388213[/snapback]</div>
    Warning: The following true description may be extremely upsetting.

    This account is condensed, from memory, from the novel Sicario by Alberto Vazquez-Figueroa, a popular Spanish author known for the accuracy of his background descriptions. The events relating to his principal characters are fiction, but the settings in which they are placed are true descriptions. The title means Assassin, and refers to the main character.

    In Bogota, Colombia, at one time (this would have been several decades ago, I don't remember if the book gives dates) vicious dogs became popular. (I don't remember if it was dobermans or rotweillers, or both.) But many of the owners were too lazy to train the dogs properly, or to learn how to train them, and as a result many of the dogs bit family members or friends of the family, and in the end, many owners simply put the dogs out on the street, that being a cheaper way of getting rid of them than having them put down humanely. Eventually, Bogota was overrun with packs of hungry, vicious dogs. The dogs became a serious public threat. After trying various ways of controling them, the police came up with the idea of shooting the dogs on sight, and were finally able to bring the dog problem under control.

    So somebody came up with the idea that if it worked for the dogs, maybe it would work also for the homeless street kids. And the cops (probably not all of them, and maybe not even many of them) began shooting street kids on sight. The kids were smarter than the dogs, though, and moved down into the sewers, where the cops would not follow them, due to the filth and the intolerable stink. The kids are either runaways from extremely abusive homes (it's got to be pretty awful if the sewer is preferable to home) or they have been turned out of the house by their parents.

    About the first half of the book deals with the childhood of the principal character, and is a vivid and graphic description of what it is like (or was at the time) to be a street kid in Bogota.

    I remember seeing a documentary somewhere about the street kids in Bogota, living in the sewers, but I don't think it gave the history of how they came to be living there, nor was the description of their life nearly as complete as in the book. I don't believe anybody would choose to live in a sewer if he had a choice.