Angry Ford dealer in SC calls imports "rice ready...not road ready"

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Presto, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Malorn,

    That piece of propaganda is malarky.

    I whole-heartedly agree that there are CEO's out there with adolescent attitudes, and think position grants them the right to economically rape their companies, well just because they want the money for themselves. And some of them are bankers the US governement just bailed out.

    But to then use that as a reason for workers to go to economic war with their management is a total bunch of crap. There is no connection between most workers and these CEO's. These problematic CEO's typcially do not run companies that manufacture. They are off in companies that service the companies that manufacture. One exception being Wagoner, but his workers are on an elite pay scale too.

    The worse thing that could happen to the US right now is for people with high school education, and capability to take on that level of responsibility in a resonsible fashion or even a little more, to insist to be paid at the master level engineering/juniour doctor/mid-level company MBA. Or about $60 to 80K in the midwest. Because that will choke off what remaining capital there is to start the next value improvement buisnesses. And the buinesses that will montise these value improving manufactured goods will not be in the US.

    For the next several years, everything that is bought in the US will have to have a good reason for being bought. And new money will only be created if the product makes things easier, saves time, or is a neccessity that makes it to retail at a smaller purchase price or smaller production price.

    Luxury and Status goods are not going to be volume sellers.
     
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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  3. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    donee,

    I think you're going in the right direction... as individuals we have to get
    beyond the all too easy, emotionally satisfying, but essentially escapist
    tendency to think and say that life can go on just as it has if only...
    (and here a miracle happens...)
    Voila!... Deus ex machina...
    Somebody else makes the hard choices...
    And somebody else makes the sacrifices...
    And somebody else solves the problems.

    I think many of our counrymen/women are going to have difficulty
    acknowledging, accepting, and finally making adjustments to the new reality.
    Most folks I talk to seem to be stuck on denial and blaming others.

    One essential question the must be answered individually is, "What means
    Good, Better, Best?" All too frequently that question has been answered
    "Big, Bigger, Biggest!" applied to just about everything, without real thought
    to the consequences: cars, houses (and the loans required to get them),
    incomes based on questionable derivatives and shaky "securities,"
    personal debt, vacations, televisions, fast-food "meals," you name it.

    The hard truth is, as a nation, we have acted like blockheads. And now it's
    time to face the so far hidden, or at least denied, consequences. It's time to
    rebuild, and that includes there having to be some knocking down first.

    Until there is a large scale re-evaluation and redefinition of the fundamental
    meaning of success, individual worth, security, "the public good," and even
    our individual and collective legacy to our children and their children, the
    process cannot begin with any chance of real success.
     
  4. C.RICKEY HIROSE

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    To note: Years ago, Toyota tried to sell the Chevys in Japan. Toyota opened a separate franchise dealers to peddle the Chevy "Cavalliers"
    However, nobody wants to buy since hearing news that the Cavalliers
    were braking down all over Tokyo. Japan would consume more US made Auto if, the Big Three makes vehicles designed to be _blended-in_ to those markets and be more reliable.
     
  5. C.RICKEY HIROSE

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    No Malorn, patsparks said a "Corolla" replacing GM equivalent not a Prius.
     
  6. C.RICKEY HIROSE

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    American consumers sees value, quality and technological excellence in the other 2.3 million Toyota sells in the USofA. Also 80 % of those Toyotas gets not replaced by trading it in to dealers, but sold privately, Why it sells,? even the old ones sells well,'cause people perception of used Toyotas equals QUALITY.
     
  7. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Japan is a "closed" auto market. The number of imports has never been greater than 5% of the entire market and that includes, bmw, gm, ford, mercedes, everyone. Check it out for yourself: http://www.jama.org/statistics/motorvehicle/imports/mv_imports_year.htm
    The reason that there are no competitors in Japan was said in your own statement. Each brand has to be sold in a separate showroom. Does anyone think there would be any other brands in the US if they originally did not get a slice of the Chevy or Ford showroom?
     
  8. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    How much of the 2.3 million toyota sales are the result of an endless pr campaign saying that Toyota is as american or more american than a comparable Chevy or Ford or on a macro scale the continued sale to the american people that the trade deficit does not matter?

    I mystery shop toyota stores every time I can and I know the canned bs in the showrooms.
     
  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    There is plenty of bulls*** spouting out of sales jerks at GM, Ford, and Chrysler showrooms too
     
  10. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    So why didn't the Yankee manufacturers look after their dealers better so they didn't look to sell other brands? Why didn't supply contracts exclude a dealer who sold another make?
    I must say I have never seen a new car badged Toyota in a GM or Ford dealership here, Toyota used AMI, Australian Motor Industries and the associated dealer network.
    Now if only GM made a decent 4x4 back then. The Land Cruiser replaced Land Rover which were in use on the Snowy River Scheme. Now mining in Australia uses Toyota almost exclusively for 4x4 vehicles.

    Toyota appeared in showrooms along side Peugeot, Renault, Morris and Leyland.
     
  11. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Oops, double post.
     
  12. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Isn't it Chevy that in its particular version of an endless PR campaign claims
    to be as "American as apple pie?" An interesting metaphor that.

    The apple isn't indigenous to the North American continent. It originated in
    Europe, in an area between the Caspian and Black Seas:

    The Apple: From Whence Did It Spring? - Digital Journal: Your News Network

    That would make the apple an import to America...

    And Chevy is then what, as American as a pie made from an imported fruit.

    It doesn't seem a stretch to say that any imported car: Toyota, Honda, Kia,
    Daewoo, VW, MB, etc, are also as "American" as a pie made from what was
    originally an imported fruit... just like Chevy claims to be.

    Jees, I should have gone into advertising. Making minced-meat out of logic
    and the English language is fun!
     
  13. kazots

    kazots LifesaBeach

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    It all sounds pretty bad. Government and domestic car makers must make some changes, but I got a feeling it will be the taxpayers who suffer. The big three and the unions will survive until we become a second level nation.
     
  14. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    I hate union bashing.
    Would there be unions if employers always treated employees with respect and valued their contribution?
    Does anyone ever bash the employer union, the Chamber of Commerce etc?
    Health costs are not the fault of unions, it was employers offered health care as a substitute to wage increases. Unions are just keeping them to their contract.
    There are unions in the UK and Australia but employers don't pay for health care. Why?
     
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Because the EU nations, Australia, Canada, offer national health care schemes that publically fund health care

    Oh, you got me again. Sneaky bugger, you're keeping me on my toes

    Although I tend to agree that inflexible unions are to blame for *some* of this mess, let's not forget that key strategic business decisions are made by the CEO and Board of Directors

    Those criminally incompetent, useless fools are the ones who drove their companies up onto the rocks. All the while, various Government agencies whistled and looked the other way

    People here love to believe in grandiose Conspiracy theories to explain what happened to the mortgage sector, the banking sector, and the automotive sector - especially if it involves little green men in flying saucers.

    The truth is: the only Conspiracy here is one of criminal activity, reach-arounds, and Old Boys Club buddy-buddy nudging and winking, while laughing with contempt at us poor ignorant peons. Eg: Madoff and the +$50 billion scam that managed to suck in supposedly "smart" investors here, and even major banks in the EU

    As a self-employed consultant, my entire career has been based strictly on my performance. If I make a mistake, and I've made a few, I end up paying for it - dearly. Nobody is standing behind me, willing to offer gobs of taxpayer dollars, to bail out any slowdown in my business

    I'm on my own. So when I watch a bunch of useless executives spewing crocodile tears, pardon me if I fail to feel anything but outright contempt for the spawn. If you *really* want to see me get angry, watch me listen to them claiming that if they go down, the entire nation goes down

    So much for Oversight, so much for Accountability, so much for Integrity. Oh sure, it’s pretty much mandatory for Yours Truly to have those traits, but the Clunker Makers of Detroit, nope. How about the crooks on Wall Street? Nope. How about the crooks who cooked up the Sub Prime Mortgage mess? Oh no, not at all

    Guess I’m in a bit of a grumpy mood. After all, it feels like somebody is slowly banging a large drum inside my head
     
  16. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Are you aware that the national health care scheme in Australia didn't exist prior to 1974, and employers didn't provide health care then either.


     
  17. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Something is wrong with this.
     
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Pat

    I would blame the heavy drinking, if I were you

    Seriously, regarding the health care "legacy" costs that the Big Three are whining about, just where have those costs accrued? That is, do the bulk of those costs date pre 1970, 1970-1980, 1980-1990, etc

    Oddly enough, the Big Three also "need" a bailout in Canada. There *are* no legacy health care costs in Canada! So what is the excuse here? Oh, I know, damn unpatriotic folks buying them nasty foreign cars

    The Big Three are caught by the short and curlies for the following reasons

    1. Criminally incompetent management that made real dumb decisions
    2. A crippling global recession and loss of "cheap" credit
    3. A cost structure that assumed unrealistic yearly sales, ammortized among sales of high-profit SUV and pickups

    Consider point #2, when a grade 5 dropout bubba working at a convenience store could expect to have a new vehicle - ideally a full size pickup with a lift kit - and a new house much nicer than mine, with no thought whatsoever on how to pay for it

    That's what them taxpayers are for!

    Now that the bailout or "bridge loan" or whatever the hell they call it, is a done deal, I fully expect the Big Three to go hat in hand, perhaps as early as February, demanding more money. Now that we have a precedent, they will get the money

    So perhaps every 2-3 months, they will get regular infusions of cash. This will do nothing for them, as I fully expect car sales to dip to under 50% of what they were a year ago. The Big Three are incapable of operating in that environment, considering their legacy costs (I'd like a *lot* more detail on what the "legacy" costs are) and nasty fixed/variable costs, so they will become nothing more than glorified Crown Corporations

    It's like these various bailouts - remember how well they worked for AIG? - are nothing more than a mafia protection racket
     
  19. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Yeah I gotta cut back on the one glass of scotch and coke I had to celebrate the new year.
    Seriously I wrote a long and detailed reply, clicked the post quick reply button and what you see in post 176 is all that appeared in the post. I don't get it.
     
  20. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Personally, I'm a gin man, but to each man, his own poison. I'm also partial to the various Australian wines carried at the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission.

    Eg; the Outback Traminer Riesling from Westend Estates

    That has happened to me a couple of times. If I have to crank out a very long, technically scary, and lethally boring reply, I edit it first in a word processor (Eg, Microsoft Word, Open Office Writer, etc), so if anything happens to the web site or the connection, I haven't wasted all that effort
     
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