Anne Frank refused sanctuary by the U.S.

Wow. Tragic.

 

Many Jews perished in the Holocaust because the United States refused them entry when they were seeking refuge:

Here is but one other example:

 

This is only news because Anne's moving diary came to light after the war and was published.

While it's news that Anne Frank's family was refused entry, it is not news that uncounted numbers of Jews were refused entry into the U.S. at a time when the U.S. government was well aware of the death camps, though the American public at large had probably been shielded from the news.

More recently, in the 1980's, countless Central American refugees who reached the U.S. were sent back to their countries to be murdered by government death squads (trained in the U.S., at the School of the Americas at Ft. Benning, GA). Moreover, it was normal practice to inform those countries of the names of the people being returned, effectively signing their death warrants.

Anyone who asserts that America values life is unfamiliar with U.S. history.

 

A greater question is why FDR did not bomb the Concentration Camps or even the railroads leading to them.

The Pope was also very silent during this time period.

And we must not forget the average european citizen who stood by and not only watched but participated either directly or indirectly.

And then there are those europeans that took the property of the Jews that were slaughtered and still squat on property that is not rightfully theirs.

And now the rise of anti-Semetism in europe speaks loudy to either an inherent prejudice or history repeating itself again.

makes you kind of pause when europeans try to lecture America on how cultured or how superior they are to us. I just laugh at them - and in a way thank them for providing my family with motive to leave and come here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("JimN")</div>

Right you are, as dbermanmd detailed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 16 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]391403[/snapback]</div>

What continues to get me is the continued anti-Semetism sometimes disguised as anti-Israel bias. Chirac said last week - [paraphrasing here] so what if Iran gets a nuke or two - and how many times has the "president" of Iran threatened to wipe Israel off the map? European support of Saddam - a huge supporter of Palestinian terror groups is well documented including the food for oil scandal - the worlds largest scandal ever. Did not the french house the ayatolla before Carter took down the Shah and created the mess we have today. On and On - european anti-Jewish bias is alive and well. They could not settle on murdering 6,000,000 of us.

Again, I laugh at suggestions that europe is a cultured civilized society that we should look up to - the joke is on them and those of us who believe the preposterous claims they continue to make. france having a permanent seat on the UN security council is perhaps the biggest joke on the east side of Manhattan.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 16 2007, 10:58 AM) [snapback]391414[/snapback]</div>

Why don't you print the rest of his quote.... or do you really enjoy framing things to be so badly out of context?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 16 2007, 06:04 AM) [snapback]391375[/snapback]</div>

The official explanation was that bombing the railroads to the camps would have tipped off the Germans that we had broken their code. I'm not sure how credible this explanation is. I think more likely the U.S. just didn't think it was worth the cost. They knew about the camps even before the war, and yet remained silent. So why would they have cared about them any more after we had entered the war?

FWIW, the allies often allowed their own soldiers to be killed, rather than use information gained from the broken codes. They saved the code information for only those operations deemed sufficiently important, all in the name of protecting the secret that they could read the codes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 16 2007, 06:04 AM) [snapback]391375[/snapback]</div>

As we squat today on property stolen from slaughtered American Indians. On this count, nobody is clean. That doesn't excuse it. But the pot is calling the kettle black.

*Edited to change FWIF to FWIW*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 16 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]391432[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, you misttyped I guess... you should have said "all in the name of saving more lives".

Question... if you're in charge of the war effort, do you protect a minor target, and save a few hundred lives and tip off the enemy that their code has been broken, or do you wait for a large raid on a major city (Eagle Day/London) and do your best to save thousands of lives. Of course, if you choose (B), you've condemned people in the city in (a) to die... but if you choose (a), you condemn even more people to die.

So which is it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Feb 16 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]391437[/snapback]</div>

Ahhh, the great question of humankind....a lot of times you will not know until it is too late for the knowledge to do any good.

But, some people refuse to accept that most people try to do thier best, with the information that they have, when they can. ALL "after the fact condemnation (not criticism)" is wrong headed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Feb 16 2007, 10:18 AM) [snapback]391423[/snapback]</div>

what else do you need to know about it? you think iran should be allowed to go nuclear - dumb question. i guess thats why they sold the nuclear reactor to iraq israel destroyed in 1981? the french love to give the arabs nukes - why?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 16 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]391414[/snapback]</div>

Yes berman, lets not take things out of context here. Chirac said (paraphrasing) that even if Iran had one or two nuclear weapons, they wouldn't use them. The missile wouldn't get 200 ft off the ground before Tehran was razed, i believe he said.

It's a case of MAD - mutually assured destruction. If Iran tried to attack anyone with a nuke, the international community would come down so hard there wouldn't be an Iran left, or many people who once called themselves Iranian. Imagine how it would be - a truly coalition force comprised of half a million soldiers from 100+ countries that just sweeps through the country after the planes finished destroying every building they could find.

When you get on here and complain about anti-antisemitism in Europe, it really has no bearing - everyone here knows you don't live in Europe and that it doesn't effect you directly. At various times i have seen or read about hate groups doing all sorts of things to individuals for one reason or another. It's nothing new. What is important is what the governments do in response. Every specific case i could find on anti-antisemitism in Europe also included remarks that the individuals were being prosecuted or had already been sentenced for their actions.

Simply put, people feel that Israel is a threat. In fact, an EU poll showed that individuals felt that Israel was one of the greatest threats to world peace. While i don't condone any actions taken, it's understandable for people to feel uneasy around individuals who are associated with a country they feel is a threat.

Finally, you have to wonder how much of this is real, and how much is media hype. You read about someone getting beaten in London "because he was a Jew". what you don't hear about are the 100,000 other Jews who spent their day pleasantly without any problems. What you don't hear about is the 100's of other people who got beaten that day "because he was fat", "because she was rich", "because i was broke", "because i didn't like the way he looked at me", etc. The media latches on to what it feels is a sensational story that will sell papers. antisemitism is a sensational story, exactly what the media would want.

Please understand that while it certainly is a problem for some people, it's not a problem for a lot of others. I recently spent 2 weeks in Europe and didn't see a single incident of individual hate or violence. In fact, everyone i met was kind and helpful to pretty much everyone else. The only problem we had was a terrorist group that blew up a parking garage near a Spanish airport. I bet you could go to Europe for a few weeks, months, even a year and not personally see any violence or hate directed at you, Berman, unless you were out actively looking for it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 16 2007, 12:13 PM) [snapback]391456[/snapback]</div>

He actually said, and I'm paraphrasing, that even if Iran had nukes, if they were dumb enough to use them, Iran would be destroyed. I think he actually said 'razed'.

Personally, I think no middle east country should possess nuclear weapons.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 15 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]390950[/snapback]</div>

It is very sad indeed, but it sounds like now the United States is on its way to being blamed for the death of Anne Frank?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 16 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]391508[/snapback]</div>

Wow, you mearly call it "catch up"?? :blink: In light of the fact that some middle east countires have boasted their policy is to push Isreal into the sea (that's the kindest phrase that immediatly comes to mind), I hardly think that the radical muslim goal is to obtain nukes to mearly catch up. Rather it would be like any other use of destructive power they've obtained ... mortars, road side bombs, human bombs ... radical nutjobs want nukes so they can USE them, right? Or did i miss something. In all Isreals years, they've never used their nukes, only WE have. As for referring to the boarder countries of Isreal as Neighbors? Somehow that phrase seems to be about the most liberal use of the word.

 

First, I didn't appreciate the tenor of those articles. They seemed to intimate that the U.S. had some new reason to be ashamed and somehow the U.S. and not the Nazis actually killed Anne. There was no mention on how the U.S. may have actually learned something from that time and decided that Jews need and ally and support since EVERY other country in the world seems to want to wipe them out, or are indifferent to their extermination.

At least the U.S. is still standing by Israel and the Jews (for now, we'll see how the pole driven Dems due) just as a rising tide of anti-Semitism is now, as in the 1930's, sweeping across the world. The Jews are the canary in the coal mine. What threatens them will come for you next, and Europe will once again reap the benefit of its appeasement stance.

Further, why does everyone fear Israel, and the Jews having the bomb? Israel has had Nukes for almost 40 years and has been surrounded the entire time by people who’s express goal was Israel’s termination. Israel has even been invaded several times. Has Israel nuked anybody? Do we fear Israel would ship nukes to some other gropup that would use them? NO of course we don’t.

But Iran is different. They express a goal to annihilate Israel and kill or subjugate ALL Jews (and then all non Muslims, and then all Muslims). Iran and its leaders believe if they die in this process then they will go to heaven and there is a strong feeling that they would have no problem taking all the Iranians with them!

Now tell me who do you fear?

(and don’t try and say the U.S. because we went into Iraq.) The claim about WMD’s aside, Saddam Hussein had flagrantly violated the original Gulf War cease fire more than 14 times actions which warranted his removal. We also won’t count the untold slaughter of his people which occurred during this time. (A slaughter which unfortunately his remaining supporters are continuing, it’s just now we know about the slaughter and the government doesn’t cover it up.)

Peace at any cost is no peace at all.

 

Take a guess at how many Palestinian refugees there are.