Another response from the Car Guy

I think the point he is missing here is that "for the same price" you don't get TRAC, auto climate control, SS/SE, digital dash etc. There IS value for the money, but it isn't soley mpg.

By the way, he does well at taking the high road when attacked

 

The guy says you can get an Accord for the same price. I paid $24,353 total for my Prius (Pkg "AM") I went to Honda's web site and "built" an Accord that seemed most similar to my Prius in terms of features, and it was almost $27,000. When I "built" something closer to a "BC" the price was close to $29,000. And many of the features we enjoy in both the "AM" and "BC" are not available in the Accord.

The Accord is one of the best cars on the road. If someone has given up on waiting for a Prius, and a Civic is too small, you can't go wrong with an Accord. But IMHO you get more value with a Prius for the features you get.

Of course, if you need cheap transportation, any late-model used Toyota or Honda will cost you less over the life of the car, including gas, than a new Prius. But in a few years you'll be able to get a used Prius, and that difference will disappear. (Mine will be for sale after the next major model revision.)

 

Here was Car Guy response to my letter...

Greetings, Tony:

Point taken, but the Prius is barely a midsize, and that by measuring its total length. Its interior volume is still well within compact standards, which is where J.D. Power and several other authorities are classifying it. But you're right, the Prius is a bit larger inside than the Corolla.

Thanks for reading, and writing -- much appreciated.

> ----------
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 6:43 PM
> To: Car_Guy - Money <[email protected]>
> Subject: Comparing Compact Corolla to Mid-size Prius?
>
> Mr. Ulrich,
>
> One thing you forgot to mention in your "More Car, Less Gas" article:
> In your comparison that state advantages of the Toyota Corolla over the
> Toyota Prius, you forgot to mention to your readers that they will
> "settle for less" if they think the Corolla has the same roomy interior
> of the Prius. Please let people know that you are comparing a compact
> car to a mid-size sedan. I am an owner of the 2004 Prius and I have sat
> in both cars prior to my purchase. I am more than happy to own a larger
> and roomier car that gets 10 miles per gallon more overall. If I wanted
> to drive a compact, I would have most definitely purchased the Corolla.
> It is hard to write a balance article when you compare apples to oranges.
>
>
> Regards,
> Anthony Han
> Dallas, Texas

 

And here's another response from Carguy and my response to him:

Ken:

I was bracing for an earful from the legendarily loyal Prius crowd, and I certainly got it!
You're right about the Prius' engineering and quality, it's a typical Toyota in that regard. (Agree on Audis as well,
I owned and loved an A4 1.8T, so much so that I could overlook its mechanical foibles).

Don't know why, but I can never match what owners get in their Priuses, and I've driven a few examples of both generations. Maybe I can do better in the upcoming Lexus/Toyota SUVs (on-sale date now delayed 'til roughly February, unfortunately).

It's really only the price that has kept us from wholeheartedly endorsing the Prius -- for owners committed to mileage and low emissions, it's obviously a great choice, but when dealers are charging $25,000 and $26,000, etc. -- same price as an Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda6, you name it -- it gets tougher. Obviously, Toyota doesn't need our help to move it!

Thanks for reading, and thanks for the info -- much appreciated.

(carguy)

Thanks for responding (carguy):

An irritation with the Prius is the bladder type fuel tank (designed for preventing evaporation when filling). It's difficult to fill it completely. Typically, the pump will cut off at about 7.5 gallons. It takes a very slow fill from that point to actually fill the tank. If one starts calculating mileage with a 'supposedly' full tank then fills the tank completely and calculates mileage, the mileage figures can be deceptive. My experience shows that it takes several tanks of gas to get a realistic reading. Maybe that might explain your 39 mpg. And you're right, the high speed freeway driving does take its toll. I've driven to San Diego on one trip and Carmel in California on another and my mileage went down. My average speed for both trips was ~76 mph (Okay, so I do edge above the posted speed limit a bit during my trips). On both trips my mileage averaged about 44 mpg (actual - based on fuel used and miles driven). And for what it's worth, the display is pretty darned accurate (something Toyota's rather proud of). My Audi's display generally came in around 2 mpg better than what I was getting in reality. By the way, was your tire pressure at factory specified pressures or better. That seems to be pretty important for mileage on the Prius.

As for price, mine cost about $23,000 (package 7). Included were: front and side airbags and head curtains; anti-lock brakes; stability control; servo controlled HID headlights; the keyless smart entry start system; fog lights; and rear window wiper. Of course, the Prius is already a well appointed car (do you remember what one had to pay for an Audi A4 that had steering wheel controls?). The display is a nice feature, not just for tracking mileage, but for easy setting of the air conditioner and audio controls. The air conditioner is significantly better than on my Audi's or Saabs (excellent in the 110 degree temperatures in the Mojave Desert) and it's quieter. The audio also has a richer, cleaner sound than I got on my premium Audi and Saab systems. I don't know if you noticed, but with the Audi A4 and it's equivalents, the folks who have to sit in back aren't very happy with legroom and sitting position. My back seat sitting friends truly appreciate this new purchase. Then there's the lift-back. It's was nice being able to save the cost of delivery on my new HDTV and patio set, not to mention the ease of carrying and retrieving luggage during my trips. In short, I didn't see any other cars in the $23,000 price range that competed favorably with the Prius (even though it's typically said that we supposedly pay a premium for owning this car). Oh, did I mention the $1,500 federal tax benefit. Also, New Mexico, where I live, is now waiving the 3% excise tax for those who buy >27 mpg hybrids.

By the way, do those other $26,000 cars include the navigation system like that on the $26,000 Prius? (it's typically a pretty expensive option).

It looks like you've made up your mind on the mileage (sad) but you might want to take just one more look at price comparison. Chances are, you'll discover that the Prius does indeed represent good bang for the buck.

Ken

Here's what carguy was initially responding to:

>
> Dear Car Guy,
>
> One of our Prius forum writers on talking about your writings on fuel saving cars stated that you printed that you got 39 miles per gallon in a 2004 Prius driving gently. Well, that's what I get too when driving gently .. up a mountain.
>
> In my 2004 Prius in which I now have ~ 7,500 miles, I don't generally baby it (I drive somewhat aggressively in the city and typically maintain a 79 mph freeway speed), I've averaged 48.1 mpg so far over the past 4 months of ownership.
>
> I'm going to assume that you've either driven a faulty Prius or you have some kind of 'bash the Prius' agenda. I really shouldn't even care; you can't even get the car these days anyway (my local dealer's waiting list is now 18 months). Still, it's a marvelous car in virtually all respects with NO problems whatsoever on mine so far. From my perspective, it deserves all the awards it's been racking up. Its amazing engineering along with the virtually perfect application of this engineering is almost beyond belief for a new model car.
>
> On the subject of forum writings, in my past experience with Audis (excellent cars) over these past few years, forum writers lauded the car, but intermixed with these praises were frequent discussions of problems. On the Prius forums (I invite you to visit any of them), about the only discussion of problems is about certain car newswriters who choose to bash the car, virtually never about problems with the car. I really hope the hybrid Ford Escape can match Prius in reliability; I'd really rather buy a car made in the U.S.A., but it needs to be a reliable car with lots of character. Hope Ford succeeds in this endeavor.
>
> Sorry to hear about your comments.

Ken

 

I think you made some great points Ken. I think a lot of people, writers included, just don't understand all the features one gets in a Prius, whatever package, that are more than "equivilent" cars. I don't know what they did in their driving, but in a 7 day period, ~ 700 miles, I averaged over 50 mpg. I DID try to make use of the sub 42 mpg EV features and I'm sure it helped. However, there wasn't opportunity for that on my 99.9% highway - cruise control at 69 generally 425 mile trip and I STILL got 51.5 avg.

 

I don't see how MONEY can call the car a poor value just because of dealers charging over MSRP. At MSRP, it's still a great value, so... what's his point?