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Any recommendations for Gen I Mechanic near Ann Arbor, MI?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Steve Bachman, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    I

    I'm new to this group and hoping for recommendations for a mechanic near Ann Arbor, MI who is honest and has expertise in Prius Gen I.
    We bought a 2002 with 130K miles 2 years ago. It now has 142K and its first problem (possibly major...) Yesterday morning, in rainy weather, the theft deterrent alarm went off. At first it was intermittent, then it started going off consistently. After locking the door and waiting for the system to arm (30 seconds of solid red LED), the LED would flash for 5-10 seconds and then the alarm would go (beeping horn, flashing lights.) As long as the doors aren't locked, the alarm doesn't go off.
    After studying the electrical diagram, I was planning to check the door lock sensors. However, I read something on this forum that indicated it might be a problem with the 12V battery. I decided to hook another 12V battery up in parallel and see if the problem went away. It did not. I drove the car about a block and then the real trouble started...MFD: PS + main battery + ! triangle. Also lost power, but I was able to limp back home.
    I do not (yet) own a ScanGauge II, so I want to take it to someone. Dunning Toyota is near me and I'm also considering AutoMotion. Any suggestions?
    Thanks!
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You are about half-way between Madison, WI, Eric Powers, EV Powers | Hybrid Battery Service & Repair. Prius Insight Civic. 2100 Winnebago St, Madison, WI, and New York, Auto Careers Development Center - Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Repair Training. You are a little closer to Chicago so you might to contact the Chicago Hybrid Group | Facebook there and see if anyone has a recommendation.

    If you'll call Auto Careers Development Center - Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Repair Training, they keep a list of folks they have trained and might be able to give more options.

    BTW, if you feel mechanical, you might want to look at the miniVCI if you have an XPWindows laptop. Others have gotten to run on more recent Windows OS.

    BTW, parallel a good and bad 12V battery is not a good test. The bad battery will suck the life out of the good battery.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  3. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Thanks Bob. I appreciate your prompt advice. I'll try to learn more about the Mini VCI. It looks like there are a bunch of options on eBay, but I'll need to sort out the version/compatibility puzzle. I have Windows 7, so I hope to find a scanner that works with both a newer computer and an older Prius!
    Based on the recommendation of ACDC, I have an appointment with ArborMotion for next Wednesday. I presume that I'll need to get it towed the 5 miles from my home to the shop, correct? Or is it okay to try to limp the car in?
    Thanks again,
    Steve
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I would call the shop and ask them. It you have already limped home, I would go for it. But this is where having the codes from a Prius-aware scanner makes sense.
     
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  5. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Thanks Bob. The shop recommended towing, but I think I'll order a scanner and postpone my shop appt. until I am able to read the codes. I'll try the MiniVCI, since they practically give them away on eBay. I'll either set up a 32-bit virtual machine on Windows 7 or borrow an XP laptop from a neighbor.
    I'm HOPING that I just had a low 12v battery condition that caused the various computers to lose their minds. You made a good point about not testing with the batteries in parallel, so I disconnected the Prius 12v battery and hooked up my spare Optima. Problems persisted, but I had used jumper cables to hook up the Optima to the small terminals, so it was still less-than-ideal test conditions. ; )
    Anyway, today I took the Prius battery to O'reilly's and had it charged/tested. It checked out okay, so I reinstalled it. At that point it read 12.3v. Then I tested the Theft Deterrent System. No (false) alarm condition! Next I started the engine. No warnings or check engine light! Checked the voltage at the battery: 13.8v (charging!) I drove it around the neighborhood at low speed. Just after I put it in P, the motor turned off before I touched the key to turn to turn off the ignition, so I put it back in D and drove around more. I mostly kept it below 15mph, so that the ICE didn't kick in. I probably drove 1 mile total. Parked it and checked the battery: 12.7v. An hour later: 12.5v. I'll continue to monitor it.
    My fingers are crossed, but so are my eyes...I don't know what caused the low voltage problem in the first place, or why it manifested itself in consistent false alarms by the Theft Deterrent System. It was raining, so I suspect a short. If it was a short in the door locking system, that might explain the false alarm symptom.
    Anyway, I'm off to eBay now, to invest $25 American in a MiniVCI. Thanks again for the help!
    Steve
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <AHEM!>Sounds like an original battery since the terminal mod hasn't been done. And I think you' all are in the colder part of the country?

    If you want to do the battery swap cheap, AutoZone/WalMart have 12V terminals that can bolt on the B+ (under the red cover) and a battery cable is cheap enough.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
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    I
    Actually Bob, I think the 12v battery was replaced in early 2011, about 10 months before we bought the car. I had a pre-purchase inspection at a Toyota dealership. I think they mentioned that their records indicated a recent battery. The carfax doesn't mention a battery replacement, but it shows an electrical inspection in January 2011. I may end up swapping the battery, so it's good to know about the terminal modification.
    However, it looks like I have bigger problems than the 12v battery... I drove the car again; less than 1/2 mile. Right as I shifted to P, the warning screen came up. I tried to pretend I didn't see it, and proceeded to raked leaves for an hour. When I got back in the car, the screen was there and the car wouldn't start. Battery was at 12.4v. Disconnected the negative terminal for a few minutes, then reconnected and everything was hunky-dory. Drove home without incident.I ordered the Mini VCI on eBay. I also found a guy near Detroit selling an Actron CP9185 Code Scanner. Do you have any experience with that scanner? Any idea whether it is "Prius aware"? (Do you like how I just throw that term around, as if I know what it means?)
    Stay tuned for another exciting episode of Steve is in Denial.
    Thanks!
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ok, sounds like the 12V battery is OK and the DC-to-DC inverter that charges it is working. Something else is broken.

    When I say "Prius-aware" scanner, the options are:
    • miniVCI - the Chinese hacked, Techstream, cheap if you have a laptop to run it on.
    • Scangauge II - requires adding XGAUGE definitions, ~30, to read specific metrics. Has the advantage of staying in the car for driving metrics but at $100-150, a little pricy.
    • Android systems - I have no direct experience but use the search function to find threads about it.
    • Graham miniscanner - out of production for nearly 10 years, it is the first one.
    A "Prius-aware" scanner can read the 19 module-pair voltages and transaxle temperatures for MG1 and MG2. I have no experience with the "Actron CP9185" so I would ask the sell to show it can read out the 19 module voltage pairs. If it can and the price agreeable, buy it. FYI, the Prius uses ISO-9141/KWP2000, a specific protocol separate from the usual CANbus scanners. Scanners that probe using CANbus can induce a false error code in the brake controller.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
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    I
    Thanks for the clarification Bob. I'll look into the Actron (actually CP9175), but will plan on the Mini VCI.
     
  10. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Good news! (So far...) The problem was apparently a dirty throttle body. I took the car to the dealership, as they had a coupon for free diagnosis. On the way there, the car twice went into limp mode. I just disconnected the battery terminal to clear the condition, so the car arrived without any codes to read. The technician had to keep the car overnight and drive it in the morning, in order to get the condition to occur again.
    The codes were:
    • P3191 - Engine No Start
    • P3101 - Low Engine Power
    Technician recommended cleaning the throttle body and, if that doesn't work, check the fuel sending unit in the gas tank. This does not explain the earlier Theft Deterrent System false alarms, so the assumption is that it was a coincidence, caused by a low 12v battery.
    One thing I hadn't mentioned previously: The car had been to the dealership a month ago. I hit a nasty road hazard that cracked the secondary (upper) oil pan. Both oil pans had to be replaced, to the tune of nearly $1K. I find it odd that both the Theft Deterrent System problem and the Throttle problem occurred nearly simultaneously, during the first heavy rain storm after major service. The dealership sees no possibility that these things are related, but it's hard not to think there is some common cause element.
    I'll continue to wonder about that, but will knock wood and hope for no more codes. I received my Mini VCI today, so after a "tech surge" to put an XP virtual machine on my laptop, I hope to be more self-sufficient soon.
    Thanks again for your help Bob!
    Steve
     
  11. Steve Bachman

    Steve Bachman Junior Member

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    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
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    I
    Hmmm....I just researched the P3191/P3101 combination. Seems overfilling the oil can cause oil in the throttle body, resulting in my exact symptoms and codes.
    When the Service Manager initial proposed cleaning the throttle body, she was going to charge me $135. I declined, saying I wanted to do my own research first. When I picked up the car, she said they went ahead and did the cleaning anyway, free of charge. I'd like to think she did it out of the goodness of her heart, but I wonder if it was a CYA, as she realized that they had overfilled the oil after replacing the oil pans.
    I love a good conspiracy theory!
     
  12. rich hurste

    rich hurste New Member

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    Two
    Steve, I noticed that you were looking for a good mechanic for your Prius in Ann Arbor. I recently took my Gen 2 to Convenience Auto on Jewett St. They have a mechanic there who has had factory training. They did a nice job on my brakes.

    Rich
     
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