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Apple may be worse than Microsoft!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Devil's Advocate, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. Devil's Advocate

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    For decades I have been on PC's and heard of how great the Apple OS was. Then with the advent of the iPhone I was looking to make the jump. So I bought the iPhone and (mostly) love it.

    Of course I suffered through the $200 screwing, but the $100 back at least helped.

    So I was in the market to replacec BOTH my home PC and laptop. So I ordered the two systems off of Apple's website (since the Apple stores are the most useless places on the planet) as the Apple stores cannot modify the computers to the specs I wanted. I could only upgrade the RAM and hardrives on Apples website. (even though some stores suggest they can add RAM but when I actualy tried to purchase the computers they said they couldn't. I guess that's the trouble with shopping at different Apples stores.

    So I placed my order and waited. Four days later I checked my order status and it was cancelled! A day later I recieved an e-mail saying that Apples ordered in the US could only be shipped to the US!! I know there is some debate amongst the illegal alien crowd that Southern CA is not actually in the US, but to my understanding, legally it still is!.

    It took another two days and two hours to figure ot that Apple considered my law firm's office a "technology forwarder" overseas. The guy on the phone said he'd look into it.

    At this point I had enough and ordered a pair of Dell's with the same(ish) specs and for about $600 less dollars. (granted they don't look near as cool)

    But then I started thinking about some of Apple's restrictions it has placed on the iPhone and wondered why they are not worse than Microsoft. I mean Apple is saying, "hey buy a handheld computer, but we'r enot going to let anyone develop apps for it!" The reason the blackberry is used by business is because it has a ton of apps, both paid and free. None of which effects the stability of the blackberry. It is an amazingly protectionist act by Apple.

    But I guess when they are getting $18 a month PER iPHONE contract from ATT, I can see why they don't want to open the sytem.

    Sadly, I love the phone, but look forward to Apple losing a couple of lawsuits which will mandate that the OS for the iPhone will be open to apps and Apple can't brick the phones anymore. I will defeinelty be doing some mods.

    Not dipleased with ATT, so if they up the internet speed a little I will probably stay, but will always look to T-Mobile.

    In short Apple has become evil with its prtoectionist ways and as they increase their market share are falling victim to the same lawsuits that have opened up the Microsoft OS.

    To bad Apple didn't learn that lesson from Gates.
     
  2. RonH

    RonH Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Nov 12 2007, 12:01 AM) [snapback]538225[/snapback]</div>
    Since you're apparently a lawyer, would you enlighten us on the legal theory for such suits. The actions against microsoft were anti-trust. But apple hardly has a monopoly in cell phones. I would love to replace my palm tx with the ipod touch, but since its a closed system, I'll do that free market thing and not buy one. The Prius's MFD is not an open system and I can think of a few great apps I could do on it. Going to sue them, too?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Nov 12 2007, 12:01 AM) [snapback]538225[/snapback]</div>
    So, is your law firm a technology forwarder overseas?
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You really are playing Devil's Advocate :p haha
     
  4. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    So let's see . . . "for decades [you] have been on PC's and heard of how great the Apple OS was" - and now, when the opportunity came where you could make the switch to Apple computers and OS . . . YOU DIDN'T . . . and you are bellyaching . . . not about the Apple computers and OS, but about an order mix-up and the fact that you "love" your "bricked" iPhone????? :rolleyes:

    What we have here is a failure to communicate an actual problem. ;)
     
  5. Devil's Advocate

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    The suits will be absed on several theories,
    1. FCC regulations requireing cell phones to be unlocked and transportable between carriers;
    2. The warranty act, wherein Apple will have to show the denial of a waaranty repair due to a "bricked" phone was casued by the additional app, not Apple purposefully bricking the phone because you have exercised your freedom to add an app;
    3. If Apple purposely bricked the phones, that it wanton destruction of your personel property.

    However, my real complaint is in Apples service. I wanted to buy Apple and nearly had to beg them to sell it to me. I don't beg to buy stuff from a company. I may pay more for something I want, ie the Prius, and was willing to pay more for the Apple product. But they really didn't make it a pleasureable buying experience. That did not bode well in my book for service down the road.

    And no we are not a forwarder of technology overseas. :)

    And it was not a "mix-up" they cancelled my order without even contacting me! (before cancelling) What's worse I missed out on a re-furbished MacBook Pro for $1500 and would have had to buy a new one for $2000. hmm maybe that's why the cancelled it????
     
  6. MaxLegroom

    MaxLegroom Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Nov 12 2007, 05:25 AM) [snapback]538300[/snapback]</div>
    If you've thought out the bases for a lawsuit against Apple, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else is thinking the same thing and is already bringing it forward.

    The forwarder of technology angle is interesting. Last year I was on a tour of duty overseas, and managed to have the Compaq laptop I'm using forwarded to me by a company referred to me by hp/Compaq, and Circuit City shipped to APO addresses at the time, which is how I got my iPod. Note that Apple retail was not involved there, as I could not buy direct from them overseas. That they cancelled the order without notifying you tells what they think of their customers, though, and an attitude like that will eventually catch up with them. Not everyone has to have a iPhone that much.
     
  7. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Nov 12 2007, 03:25 AM) [snapback]538300[/snapback]</div>
    Software changes all the time, and when you make changes to what is supposed to be a closed system, you don't worry about maintaining backwards compatibility with your API's all that much, which is why all of those iPhones were "bricked". I think you would be extremely hard pressed to show that Apple intentionally bricked them and it didn't happen due to changes they were making for other reasons.

    Additionally, in software of this caliber, pretty extensive logs are kept whenever there is a major problem with the phone - at the first sign of the problem, those logs would be written, and it should be, in theory, pretty easy for Apple to obtain them (if their given the phone by the user) and show what the problem is - most likely directly pointing to the additional App.

    I think that covers points 2 and 3... For point one, is there such a law/requirement? AFAIK (and i'm no expert), locked phones are still perfectly legal, although requiring unlocked phones is being debated by the FCC. If such a law is passed, it will be interesting to see what happens. Apple has a 5 year contract with AT&T - would a new law allow that contract, legal when it was written, to be fulfilled? Or would a new law nullify that contract and force Apple to open up the iPhone to other carriers? Either way, if its not a law "on the books" right now, i don't see how Apple could get in trouble for it...
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Nov 12 2007, 01:25 AM) [snapback]538300[/snapback]</div>
    1. Is this the case? I doubt it. I think lots of carriers have locked phones.

    2. Has Apple denied warranty service? Until and unless they do, there's no case, and in any case, if the phone is represented as being bricked, and you add apps to it anyway, you probably have no claim against them.

    3. Apple has not destroyed your property when it bricked the iPhone. It reduced the usefulness of phones at the time of manufacture, when it owned them itself, and it sold them to customers as such.

    Looks to me like there's no case here.

    As for the "technology forwarder" thing, I'd want to know whether this was a marketing decision by Apple, or a government regulation about selling technology overseas, and whether Apple itself ruled your company a forwarder, or whether the government required it to check a government list of forwarders.

    However, canceling your order without telling you was nasty.

    BTW, I bought my iMac from a local store even though I wanted a different configuration. The store ordered it for me from Apple. The advantage for me is the tech support I get just a couple of miles from home, instead of over the phone from India. I can phone, I can visit, I can take my computer in if I need to. They are friendly and knowledgeable, and I can even get help with basic OS use issues that are not problems, but just my ignorance of how to do something. Granted, this is not of much value to someone who already knows computers and the OS in depth. For me it is worth a great deal.
     
  9. wfolta

    wfolta Active Member

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    Re: Apple may be worse than Microsoft!

    "same-ish" is never the same. Usually inferior, but the argument is always made "I don't want that feature that's included on the Mac". Even if it is hardware-wise superior, you're stuck with WIndows. Not to mention that style does matter, otherwise we would all wear plastic garbage bag with holes punched out for arms and head, and we'd all drive cars painted only in primer, and wear watches that looked like crap but basically told the time.

    You know Windows, the OS everyone says is just as good as or better than the Mac, right up until the next version of Windows is released, at which point everyone -- including MS -- starts ragging on the old OS and saying that THIS one has finally put the nail in Apple's coffin. Same story every few years for decades. And you know what, Windows 7 may have finally made actual progress... look at all of the "MS finally got it right" articles out there in windows fanboy magazines.

    The reason that the Blackberry is used by business is because it filled a niche, with certain built-in features before anyone else did. Yes, there are custom apps, but I don't know of any of the many Blackberry users that I know who have a non-standard app on the phone.

    This will happen about the same time as Toyota loses a lawsuit mandating that anyone be able to hack the Prius' firmware to modify its performance and still expect it to work and get serviced under a warranty.

    People hack the iPhone to unlock it. This involves taking advantage of bugs in the OS and modifying files that would never normally be modified. Apple releases an update that breaks when files it depends on have been modified. No basis for a lawsuit there.