Are Can Gen3 Prius Battery Modules be used in a Gen2 HEV Battery rebuild?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by noobie009, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. noobie009

    noobie009 New Member

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    Hello,
    I need to fix a faulty 2006 Prius HEV battery that recently quit. The battery is original (one owner) and has 12 years and 225,000 miles on it.

    I see several good threads describing how to rebuild a Gen2 battery with donor Gen2 modules (swapping-out the bad module, or two); however, I am concerned the age of the battery will lead to other modules failing soon after.

    So, my other thought was to use newer model-year Gen3 battery modules to rebuild the Gen2 battery.

    I've tried looking for a good link or summary on 'Gen2 battery rebuilt with Gen3' parts... several threads discuss this. However, I have not found a good (conclusive) summary: (1) if the Gen3 battery modules are compatible iwth Gen2; and if they are, (2) what is the best process to do the swap/rebuild (swap only, swap and balance, etc)?

    Any help, summary, or good link is appreciated.


    Thank You,
    Nico
     
  2. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    1. Yes, Gen 3 modules are compatible with the Gen 2.
    2. Find a new as possible Gen 3 battery pack and swap all modules into the Gen 2 pack.
    Mixing (newer) Gen 3 modules with (older) Gen 2 modules does not work.
     
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  3. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Came here to also confirm that mixing Gen2 and Gen3 cells does not work.
    All or nothing.
     
  4. noobie009

    noobie009 New Member

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    dolj,
    Thank you. I'll look for a Gen3 pack.
     
  5. noobie009

    noobie009 New Member

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    eric,
    Thank you too.

    Nico
     
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Sounds like it's time for another experiment.....Has anyone ACTUALLY tried putting a Gen 3 module into a Gen 2 pack and tested it or are we all just going by folklore?

    Personally. I don't know that there's enough difference between the modules that the battery pack/ecu would really care.

    Sounds like I may have a project for when I get home this weekend...........

    Throw some suggestions out to me for how you would like to see them mixed up, what order, etc. I have about 1.5 tons of modules to choose from 2003 through 2016 manufacture dates
     
    #6 TMR-JWAP, Jan 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    No, not folklore, it is based on mixing new higher capacity (lower IR) modules with lower capacity (higher IR) modules. Recipe for balance problems. This is by nature generalist advice, though.

    [EDIT] I'm surprised you asked this, because I'm fairly sure you wouldn't make a battery to pass on by whack-a-moleing a couple or three Gen 3 modules into a failed Gen 2 pack.

    However, if any one is capable of matching Gen 3 modules to work in a Gen 2 pack, you would be one of the ones who could.
     
    #7 dolj, Jan 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    That reasoning is true for all individual module replacements, not just putting a gen 3 into a gen 2 pack. I can guarantee there are plenty of 2010 gen 3 modules of similar capacity to 2009 Gen 2. To me, the question is "are they compatible?". We make it sound like any gen 3 mod in a gen 2 pack is going to immediately trigger the triangle. I don't think that's true. I'll look through my notes and find some various years to do half the blocks in gen 2 and half in gen 3, different years but all similar capacity. Install it in my 2007, and do some testing. Maybe something interesting will show up.

    I still have one of the test batteries (battery 'P') from an earlier customer swap where I installed one module off the rack with no matching. I'll take that same pack and install a 2014 module in its place. (I have 6 2014 mods on my bench right now from another project). No matching will be performed. Just straight up pop it in there and see how it tests.
     
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Like I said, you have the equipment, skill and knowledge to test and make those judgements.

    My advice was generalist and you will notice I gave the advice to get a Gen 3 pack that was as new as possible. I did not have in mind a 2010 pack, more like 2014 0r 2015.

    Where your testing could be invaluable is, do the changes made to improve the Gen 3 modules have any bearing on how well they play with Gen 2 modules. As far as I know, no-one has answered that question.
     
  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    That's what I'm curious about also. We hear a lot about how module improvements have been made from gen to gen, but honestly, I just haven't seen that 'ah-ha!!' difference. Maybe having them all together in one battery assembly will help to see something. The never ending list of experiments strikes again...
     
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  11. noobie009

    noobie009 New Member

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    TMR,
    You have a LOT of batteries lying around.

    Do you sell used or reconditioned cells?

    If I did a full Gen3 cell replacement in the Gen 2 pack, would I need to recondition and balance the gen 3 cells?
     
  12. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    If you take all the cells from the same pack that was working good and hasn’t sit long time with no use you don’t need to. But older the modules and longer they have sit it becomes more beneficial to recondition/balance them.
     
  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    A better DIY option, IMHO is @2k1Toaster 's kit of new cells. You basically end up with a new pack and a 2 year 25K mile warranty for $1600 shipped, assuming you are in the continental US. That is hard to beat!
    Details in my signature.
     
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  14. noobie009

    noobie009 New Member

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    valde3,
    Thank you.

    I'm really trying to keep the costs down. If I do go the rebuild route with Gen2 cells, could you recommend what equipment you might use?

    I was thinking of getting 4 of the Hobbymate Imax B6 units... about $33 each on Amazon. I'm not certain if any other specialized equipment is really needed.

    Your thoughts are welcome.

    Thank You,
    Neil
     
  15. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    To bad we weren't closer.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  16. Robertto09

    Robertto09 Junior Member

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    Has anyone put a 4 generation HV battery in a generation 3? It's possible?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Some have put a Gen 4 Prius Two battery modiules into a Gen 2 Prius casing.
    The Gen 4 Prius 2 (not 2 Eco) & , I think, the 1 have an improved NiMH battery. The other trims, & the Prime, have Li-Ion batteries so they would not work,

    EDIT: I am referring to US Trim models here. I do not know about Gen 4 Prius in Costa Rica.
     
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  18. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I'm still waiting for someone to smoke test putting a Gen4 lithium battery into a Gen2/Gen3 car. Could work if they didn't change the battery ECU protocol...
     
  19. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Why bother putting lithium in where it does not belong?
    You want lithium? Buy a lithium car.

    There are many protocols, software, and hardware that are different between the Nimh and lithoum versions. Not worth the effort.
     
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  20. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    There will come a time when there is a better supply of lithium batteries than good NIMH. It will be another 5+ years before any current lithium battery Prius will need replacement. So replacing Prius NiMH batteries with Prius lithium is going to look good if it works.

    One of the functions of the battery ECU is to insulate the rest of the car from whatever battery chemistry is being used.
     
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