Are we overemphasizing MPG?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 22 2007, 07:55 AM) [snapback]410087[/snapback]</div>

I agree with a lot of what you say. There is a tendency to use the car more when it's new (a) to experience the feeling of driving a different sort of car and (B) because you think it's using very little fuel.

It reminds me of the time a few years ago when I started replacing filament light bulbs in the house with low wattage equivalents to save electricity. When I first had these new bulbs I used to leave lights on longer because of the thought they they were not using much power. I expect a lot of other users were doing the same.

 

I am driving the Prius a lot more than we did our old car (2000 Avalon). The reason is the fuel econony. However the total milage between our 2 vehicles is about the same. I also have a Ford SporTrac which gets about 12/14 MPG city & 18 MPG highway. I use the Ford to haul trash from our yard, hauling large items, surf fishing (4X4), etc. Since we bought the Prius my truck milage has decreased dramatically. One thing I did not expect with the Prius is how large the storage area is. It's deceiving how much you can actually fit into the Prius.

 

The Prius is our only automobile and I do not drive for the sole purpose of increasing MPG. I drove our former auto, a Subaru Legacy Wagon in order to increase the MPG without causing anger or accidents. For example, I planned my trips for efficiency, coasted up to red lights, accelerated to keep up with traffic flow and then backing off of the throttle.

I drive the Prius in much the same way except that the machine makes the effort much easier and much more pleasurable.

 

Interesting dialog you've started here. I'll respond to some of your specific comments.

I find that there is a little too much overemphasis on gas mileage here - it's cute for a little while - but on a continuous basis, starts to really look anal.

I'll admit, I'm anal. Too much emphasis on mileage? Certainly if overall consumption actually increases (see below). For me, I don't consider it overemphasis. My overriding goals are to put as little money as possible into the pockets of foreign oil exporters hostile to the U.S. and to save me money. As a means to the end, it's become a challenge to push my fuel economy as high as possible. Instant gratification is a powerful tool. Especially in the hands of the anal-retentive!

As an example, I have seen posts here mention people driving extra miles to raise their MPG average. This is ridiculous.

Agreed! I have made alterations in my commute routes that make them longer but use less total fuel. The new routes are much better suited to high-FE driving.

On a more pragmatic point, I have observed that people actually drive their Prius more than they would have otherwise done so if it was another model.

I drive it more than my previous vehicle. But that's because its mileage compares favorably to other cars I could choose from to drive or ride in (e.g., my fiancee's or friends' cars) for trips I would make anyway. That wasn't the case with my previous vehicle: an SUV. In fact, I'm probably making fewer total trips after discovering how much of a hit fuel economy takes from short trips on a cold engine. I'm more likely now to combine trips.

OH... and by the way..... I get 64.239816 MPG average !!! (just kidding...)

Good discussion! Oh ... and by the way ... my current tank sits at 61.2 MPG!!! (not kidding...)

 

Good point about the 10% extra. I cycle 1,000 miles each year so I can add this into my average of 58.129 to give 61.92 mpg. (UK gallons). Neat.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KV55 @ Mar 22 2007, 08:15 AM) [snapback]410135[/snapback]</div>

^^^^^ Anal.....^^^^^

lol.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 22 2007, 06:55 AM) [snapback]410087[/snapback]</div>

I agree. Two points to make here: I think we should measure gallons per month, not miles per gallon. That would be a truer measure of our environmental impact / funds to OPEC / trade deficit contribution.

Secondly, Jevons Paradox is an old paradigm of a similar nature. Studying the use of coal in steam engine trains, he found that making the trains more efficient meant that more work could be done for the same amount of coal, so instead of reducing the coal usage, railroad companies added more routes to their schedule, increasing their income. So improving efficiency doesn't generally reduce consumption, by itself. I'm not sure that totally applies in this case, because 1) gas prices are increasing, whether or not we're more efficient 2) driving also takes time, and people don't have unlimited time for driving. While you get 2x the mileage, you're unlikely to spend 2x the time behind the wheel.

In my case, I've reduced the miles I drive since I've gotten the Prius, but that's largely due to getting a closer job, then the job actually moved even closer to my house. As soon as the weather clears, I'll start biking (got over 1.6" rain yesterday!)

 

I don't think it's "overemphaszed" per-se. Some people take it more seriously than others and I don't think they can be blamed. One of the car's major attractions is its fuel economy, after all. Chalk it up to "different strokes for different folks." If it isn't your thing you shouldn't be harassed about it, likewise for them.

My philosophy on fuel economy resembles a breakfast cereal commercial: "Fuel efficiency is part of a well balanced driving style." I think that being aware of fuel economy and making an effort to improve it is a good thing. Pushing it once in a while on a desolate stretch of road may be a good way to learn about the car, and reporting the results of experimentation is a great way to educate others about their options.

However I encourage people to balance fuel economy with other aspects of driving, not the least of which is courtesy for other drivers with other priorities. And I believe that the results of that effort can come in the form of very good numbers. You don't have to use every trick in the book to make a difference during your day-to-day.

Very important point: "We" are a group with different ideas about the issue of fuel economy. It is necessary to accept that there is no clear-cut right or wrong, and that a consensus on the issue is very unlikely.

 

Fuel efficiency is a good indicator of cost, GHG emissions, durability and other factors. Not the best indicator, but you can look to vehicles with low fuel efficiency as a good indicator of higher operating cost, greater GHG emissions, more maintenance demands and a greater carbon footprint.

Vehicles should have hour meters and be judged by a combination of factors to arrive at an Energy Efficiency Index (EEI) just as structures are rated.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brick @ Mar 22 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]410184[/snapback]</div>

I don't think the OP was dissing fuel economy, just that with too much emphasis on it, some people will actually drive farther than needed 1) to improve mpg value, 2) because it uses less fuel you can go farther on same gallon. Point 1) is pretty silly, but I know I've been tempted. My commute over the winter was 8 miles, and it took the first 1/3rd of that to warm up. After that it would be fine, but my mileage dropped below 40 mpg because of my short commute, whereas that fly-in-the-ointment TonyPSchaefer would get 50 mpg all winter long, similar conditions but a longer commute (and an EBH I think). I still think gallons per month is a better measure (sorry Tony).

You are correct with the statement that we are not a homogeneous group, so obviously one statement won't fit all.

 

If people want to go out of their way to get the highest MPG possible, go for it. Me, I'm happy with the 40 MPG I've been getting lately (especially since I know it will get even higher once the warm weather decides to return). I figure, I drive so little that I probably get more DAYS per gallon than some guy who's getting 65 MPG but drives 40 miles every day.

 

I purchased my Prius because of the fuel mileage. Specifically, I purchased the Prius to reduce my gasoline use to help in a small way to move us away from oil as our transportation fuel.

I have ended up driving more miles but end up using less gasoline. Examples:

I my new route to work is 7.5 miles instead of 7.0 miles. By going 0.5 miles out of my way I don't have to go up and down two large hills (~250 foot elevation gain). When driving the longer route the fuel mileage is better and I burn less total gasoline on my commute. (7.5 miles @ 50mpg is 0.15 gallons / 7.0 miles at 45 mpg is 0.155 gallons)

Now I always drive when the guys from the office go out to lunch twice a week. Before the 3 of us would take a S-10 and Tacoma to lunch that each got about 20 mpg for about 1.5 gallons for the 15 mile round trip. Now we take only one car, my Prius, and only use 0.33 gallons of fuel. So less total fuel used but more miles on my car.

I don't drive the Prius for "Sunday Drives". The Prius is a VERY boring car to drive. It is great for commuting from A to B but doesn't inspire me to drive it for the sake of driving. If I'm going to go for a drive just for the enjoyment of driving I ride my motorcycle.

 

When we have a comfortable car that gets better mileage than most motorcycles, why not enjoy that?

But while we are about that, don't forget that mileage calculations are only estimates.

We assume that the odometer is accurate.

We assume that the pump measuring the gasoline is accurate.

We assume that the temperature of the gasoline delivered is constant (the volume is dependent on the temperature).

We assume that the tire size stays the same when it changes as it wears.

We assume that our calculations are correct.

We are probably within 5% plus or minus of correct. Maybe worse. Maybe Better.

It is an estimate.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Mar 22 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]410230[/snapback]</div>

Au contraire - My Prius is the first car I owned that I sometimes drive just for the sake of driving it because it's so fun.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 22 2007, 07:55 AM) [snapback]410087[/snapback]</div>

Took the thought right out of my head. I drive my prius exactly the same amount that I used to drive my Outback. This topic came to such an ridiculous level in my way of thinking when I read about the Prius (or Insight) Marathon; get a bunch of prii together and drive them to see how high you can get the MPG and for how far. Wow. That is 1000% opposite of the whole point of even driving a prius to begin with; whether you bought it for the environment, to keep $ out of foreign oil, or to save money on your commute.

It just boggles my mind... :blink:

 

I just posted on this very topic on another site.

Hybrids make maximizing fuel economy into a video game - it can be addicting. There is no reason all vehicle should not have dashboards with them - not a hybrid feature.

The dash has made a lot of people aware of how they are using gas and how to avoid much of it.

Drivers can have all kinds of motives for maximizing mpg. Some have suggested it's vanity, and I think that is overstated, just like those who say all Prius drivers are smug. It's self-improvement, and maybe a "new best game score" for me. I'm still learning new things six years later.

Don't the also do bean-counting in sales, Weight Watchers....?