1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Asking for some pro advice on 150K maintenance before going to the shop

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Dirk from Amsterdam, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hello All!

    This is Dirk from Holland. Just introduced myself in the introduction part.

    I'm going for maintenance next week. We have a 2010 prius III with now 211.000km (150K miles) on the clock. Last maintenance was done at 195.000km (140K).

    The shop i'm going to next week has known and maintained the car from 138.000km (100K miles) and not much more has been done since then the regular maintenance (every 15.000km) except for spark plug change recently.

    I want to be in control so that's why i'm asking you guys (and woman?) for some advice on what is wise to do.

    I've made a list from what I read and saw on youtube from what probably needs to be done.

    How does the car dive?
    I'm a bit dissapointed by the power in normal mode and it is not keen on driving electric, only when accelerating very slow of driving steady till 43 mph. Furthermore there is a rattle at slow speed when the battery is at two bars. And I think it is the suspension that makes some crunchy-squieaky sound. The stearing makes soft teeth grinding sound when steering at parking. For the rest, splendid. Mpg since august is 50mpg and only from two more cold past weeks is 43mpg.

    What I think that the car wants on maintenance according to schedule and reading more at 150K:

    - big or small regular maintenance
    - interior filter
    - cleaning EGR
    - cleaning or replacement pcv
    - check suspenions
    - new windscreen whipers

    and maybe:
    - brake liquid?
    - engine coolant?
    - transmission liquid?
    - engine flush for old residu?

    Would love to hear your thoughts about my list and make some more recommendations!

    Have a great day.

    Dirk
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I’d add a clarification to one of the points: clean egr

    Is that the whole circuit or just the valve? Cause the whole circuit will need to be cleaned.

    Some additional questions:
    • Are you the DIY type?
    • What are your plans for the Prius (how long do you want to keep it, etc)?
    • How much oil does it consume?
    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
    m.wynn, Mendel Leisk and bisco like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    welcome!

    do you have a copy of the toyota maintenance schedule that came with the car?

    has all the regular maintenance been done up to this point? because most of the items you list should have already been completed between 100k and 120k on the u.s. schedule.

    definitely the tranny if you are going to keep her, and look into the strange noises.

    all the best!(y)
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks! Well, yes that was my point but didn't know the exact parts by name ;)

    - With my previous old Audi's I did most of the basic stuff myself; for now I want to see what maintenance will really cost and see if it is worth to let a pro do it. Undecided yet.
    - The plan is to have it for lets say 3-6 years (we drive 20K miles per year) and then still sell it for a good price.
    - It doesn't consume oil; I just topped the coolant with .45L. It was just under the minimum after our 8000km drive but maybe it wasn't full when we've bought it.

    Yes, keep you posted! Tomorrow I'll go by the last maintainer and will get a full print on what's been done past 40K. Also will ask about his recommendations for the right maintenance.
     
  5. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks bisco!

    Well we have a schedule online by Toyota. Tomorrow I'll find out where we are in maintenance but I assume it is quite up-to-date.
    What already upset me a bit is that I said to the garage guy on the phone why I wanted to look into the EGR, and that it is more with diesels that it needs to be cleaned... :S So this is exactly why I want to be in control!
     
    bisco likes this.
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,468
    38,103
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Has the brake fluid ever been changed? Toyota Canada recommends (in metric units, good for you) to do this every 3 years or 48K kms, whichever comes first.

    Again quoting Toyota Canada, the recommendation for both engine and inverter (transaxle, aka transmission) coolant circuit is to do a first drain and fill at 10 years or 160K kms, whichever comes first, and thereafter, every 5 years or 80K kms. Toyota USA is similar, except delays the first inverter coolant change to 15 years or 240K kms (150K miles). At odds with Toyota Canada: my inverter coolant reservoir has a decal that says don't change untill 150K miles (per US recommendation).

    Transaxle (aka transmission) fluid change: yes, do this, asap. Toyota Canada or USA both are silent on the subject. It is easy, and should not be costing more than $100 at a dealership. I've done ours 3 times now, a little overkill, with only 78K kms on the odometer currently. I think the optimum time for first change would be at the one year mark, around 15K kms.

    Engine flush, don't really have an opinion. Would recommend regular oil change, your choice for interval. Toyota Canada recommends every 6 months or 8K kms, whichever comes first. This is what I follow.

    Are you regularly getting the brakes inspected? Every 3 years or 48K kms is good for that.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,468
    38,103
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Cleaning EGR and intake manifold, the EGR in particular, is somewhat arduous and labour intensive. Dealership would likely want to replace parts, not clean, and that would get very expensive, coupled with their labour charges. I would recommend to DIY, or find an independent mechanic.

    Following is some more info. I didn't type just now; I'm getting cagey, just copy-and-paste :):

    I'd definitely consider doing the full EGR clean-out, before not too long. Ditto for the intake manifold, and the Oil Catch Can install. The PCV valve is probably fine, but you've got a new one, and it's cheap: for sure replace when you've got the intake manifold off.

    Take your time, watch the videos by @NutzAboutBolts (pinned at top of maintenance sub-forum). Also, a couple of good threads:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    I would read both threads, end-to-end, lots of tidbits.

    When I got into it, I had a fairly typical arsenal of tools. It's good to have an enclosed garage with a slab, a floor jack and safety stands (ramps would also do). Ratchet wrenches, both regular and long-handle are handy, swivel head helps in some instances. Both a 3/8" and 1/4" torque wrench will be needed if you're a stickler for torque values. And E8 torx socket is needed to remove some studs on the EGR, and there's similar studs on intake manifold (for the throttle body) that are E6.

    A ratcheting 12 mm box wrench is maybe not essential, but very handy, in particular for the EGR to exhaust connection. Also, you cannot have too many pliers, straight and offset, various lengths. Ditto for ratchet extensions: you'll need every length: 1.5", 3", 6".

    Regarding coolant lines, somewhat contrary to the videos:

    1. There's no need to disconnect coolant lines from the throttle body; you can just lift it off off and tie it out of the way.

    2. With the EGR valve/cooler removal, you can avoid any coolant spillage, and any need to clamp hoses, if you drain a couple of quarts from the radiator and the outset (at the radiator drain spigot). Drain it into a clean container, then when you're done pour it back into the reservoir. This will drop the coolant level below the egr system. There will be a table spoon or two trapped at the back of the EGR cooler: just lift it off and tip it into the previously drained coolant container.
     
  8. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thank you Mendel for your reply. I went to the last dealer this afternoon. They maintained the car from 138K km till 195K km and did only the normal scheduled maintenance and once the sparkplugs. And two new tires and some lamps...

    The guy was very sure that with this car, the EGR system doesn't need to be cleaned. It's more diesel cars and vw that has issues with this.... huh? This doesn't sound like someone that knows a bit more than just the schedule of the car. Hoped that he is the guy that is gonna think for me, but no.

    I saw some video's by now and now I just have to decide how much I want to do myself ;-)
    I changed oil before, filters and some brake maintenance.
     
    Mendel Leisk and Raytheeagle like this.
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you won't find m(any) dealers who know about the egr problem
     
    Mendel Leisk and Raytheeagle like this.
  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The recent mechanic you should move on from and double check all important fluids yourself as his knowledge is lacking;).

    Look around here for egr issues and you’ll find plenty of pics. I’ve cleaned the egr circuit 7 times now on 6 different Prii and each time they are carbon deposited up:cool:.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
    NutzAboutBolts and Mendel Leisk like this.
  11. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Yeah me and my girlfriend did not find to much of feelings of trust. The guy was with his loud voice trying to scare me and made me a fool about that this EGR cleaning is never an issue with the Prius.

    What exactly will be the issue when it is clogged? I read a lot by now but don't read too much about what it helps for. I have this sound and maybe it could be related. Anyone recognise this?

    At 3-4 seconds you can hear the rattle.


    At another thread I found this list for a 200.000km prius:

    1 Oil + filter
    2 engine air and cabin air filter
    3 atf fluid change
    4 spark plugs
    5 engine coolant
    6 invertor coolant
    7 lubricate brake caliper sliding pins and check brake pad thickness

    Today I'm gonna call some toyota dealers and ask them about their prices and experience on cleaning the EGR.
     
  12. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    p.s. so the sound is (sometimes) hearable for only a moment when driving slow, 10-20mph, with two bars battery.
     
  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Our experiences stateside with egr circuit cleaning and Toyota is that they will not do this job and they would want to throw new parts at it, exponentially increasing coststo perform the job:cool:.

    I’d look to source another independent mechanic. What I would do is the following (if I was to not do the job myself):
    • Check with the new mechanic and see if your car can be left with him overnight and the job split into 2 sessions
    • If yes, I would request the mechanic to give you the egr cooler, egr valve, egr pipe and intake manifold once it has been disassembled so you can clean them yourself overnight
    • If the mechanic will not allow overnight storage, purchase spare parts from a salvage yard or the internet
    • Clean those spare parts and have them ready for your trip to the mechanic
    The egr circuit functions like every other car (not unique to the Prius). But if the ports or cooler get clogged, now there is a air and heat imbalance which can cause thermal differential and potentially a head gasket failure.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  14. FrankB

    FrankB Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    117
    53
    1
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You misspelled admit.
     
    Mendel Leisk, m.wynn and bisco like this.
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    good point:oops:
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  16. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Ok guys.

    Some updates. I contacted the nearest Toyota dealer and made an appointment for maintanance. Had too many questions (and too little time/experience) to figure it all out myself and decided that I could dellegate this one. Big maintenance done which at 210K km they do: oil, filters interior and oil, all kind of checks, brake fluid, rear wiper, some lamps and rear brake pads and rented their aygo for a day. 480,- Euro.

    What's not been done is the right mirror signal light. This costed 133,- euro to replace the unit. I find this a lot and searched for DIY but didn't find much... Any idea if this is easy?

    And then, the EGR. Also this shop said when I told that I probably found the issue that on internet you can find a lot of junk. I let the mechanic listen to my recorded sound and he heard that the cilinders had no equal gas in them. They searched in their database for known issues and geuss what: 'It is very probable that the egr has to be cleaned'!

    By the way, something important maybe: they said they do some preventive stuff, they inject or put something in it when they maintain the car so the black junk when it is still little is just blown away (or something).

    They will do the cleaning for the system (has to specify yet what all is included exactly) a 2.5 hours for 306,93 euro. Fair deal to me.

    Also they didn't do gearbox oli change (only if leaking) but I'm just gonna request it because it makes me feel better :)
     
  17. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    480 euro seems a lot to me for what you got.

    I’d be curious what the 2-3 hours for the egr cleanse is, as I have done the full circuit 7 times now and te shortest time I got was 5 hours.

    What you are describing by injection service sounds like they have a payment due soon on a large purchase they have made. If you use quality gas and oil, deposits should be low. I use BG Products EPR (also known as PN109) before I change the oil and it cleanses the oil side.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  18. Dirk from Amsterdam

    Dirk from Amsterdam New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    10
    12
    0
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    And do you also have easy cleaning tools like air compressor raytheeagle? The thing is, I know they take a bit more money than neccesary, but what am I gonna do? I'm in the start of a bussiness so don't have all the time like I had before..
    Guy on the phone said they will clean the intake manyfold and valve. The pcv valve he didn't know..
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I do have access to tools and I am also a busy professional with a family so my time is also a precious resource.

    But money also a finite resource, so I try to balance the time-money equation.

    I’d try to get more specifics from the shop so you have a clear understanding of their proposal.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,468
    38,103
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    It is a bit of a sand pounder, that 3rd gen EGR systems inevitably clog, access is not trivial, and the dealerships are so in-the-dark.

    I did the stem-to-stern cleaning of egr, plus intake manifold cleaning, plus Oil Catch Can install over the course of a weekend or two. No expenditure (well a can of Brake Clean and copious scoops of Oxi-Clean powder for the cooler), gaskets all looked fine (nearly lost one...), but a significant mount of wrenching, sometimes in stupidly tight quarters. In hindsight, leaving one or two of the EGR hold-down bolts off, the system would still be solid/secure. Next time.

    Again, watch the videos I mentioned above, a real eye-openers.

    Goedendag (y)
     
    #20 Mendel Leisk, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018