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At what voltage should the OEM 12 volt battery be replaced?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by tedjohnson, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. tedjohnson

    tedjohnson Member

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    As our Pri age, sooner or later the 12 v battery will fail and at exactly the wrong time. So perhaps preventive maintenance means replacing it just before failure. What has been the experience of other owners of 2010's as far as failure goes?
     
  2. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

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    I have one of the oldest 2010's (serial number 1379) and have had no problems yet. I had to replace the 2008 Gen II's battery in the spring. That would have made it a about 5 1/2 years old.
     
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  3. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    I'll submit that voltage tells you almost nothing. A voltage check *might* be useful in confirming a bad battery, but as a predictor of failure it has no real value. A battery may well have 14v showing one day and be dead the next.

    A better question to ask would be: what's it worth to you to avoid the dead battery scenario? There's no question that the OEM battery is the cheapest of the cheap and shouldn't be expected to last as long as a decent retail battery, but it mostly depends on how its used. Lack of use kills them as fast as heavy use, but they can just go belly up for no reason and without warning.
    Best test posted around here so far is to put your car in "on" mode, (not "ready"), and run all 4 windows down and up again. If the motion is snappy and seems normal you have a decent battery - maybe.
     
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  4. tedjohnson

    tedjohnson Member

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    I guess doing that while watching the DC voltage would give an indication of increased internal resistance and be better than on open circuit voltage test. But when my 2000 Honda Insight 12 v battery failed at 5 years it went on a cold day with a shorted cell, and no warning at all. The buildup of conductive gunk at the bottom explained that, but with an AGM type I do not know what kills them that could be reasonably predicted....Just wondering if anyone else has any knowledge, and curious at what mileage they are dying in practice. Thanks.....
     
  5. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    The 12v battery has been lasting about 6 to 7 yrs in the gen2 FWIW.

    SCH-I535
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there's a thread here somewhere that shows how to use the mfd to test the battery.
     
  7. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    No bisco, that is only showing you the voltage at one point in time. Plus it is not real accurate compared to a calibrated VOM at the battery itself.

    Lead acid batteries can die without notice.
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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  9. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    I had the battery die in the first 12 months, but that was because I somehow "tricked the head lights into staying on for about 12 hrs and completely flattened the battery. My second battery, also a Toyota battery is travelling fine so far.
     
  10. kbeck

    kbeck Active Member

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    Two quick points.
    1. Several posters have stated that lead-acid batteries can fail without warning. I'll go with that.
    2. It's also possible that a lead acid battery will fail with warning.
    One failure mode I've seen in a relatively long lifetime is for a cell to short out. In a 12V battery, there's six cells, all containing roughly the same amount of charge per cell. If the battery is allowed to discharge all the way down (i.e., the lights were left on, dummy), one or more of the cells can get reversed in potential, after which they may not take a charge any more. In that case, sticking a voltmeter across the battery, especially if the battery has at least some small load on it, will reveal 10V or less across the terminals, and it's time for a new battery.

    Second bit: Over time, some of the sulfate in the electrolyte (H2SO4 in water = sulfuric acid) can result in a coating of lead sulfate crystals on the plates; this reduces the ability of the battery both to take a charge and dump out current; call it the natural aging process. So, even with a good voltage, there may not be much capacity on the battery.

    Most service stations keep an automotive battery tester around ($300 for the gold plated version, $12 for one you really wouldn't want to use) which can put up to a hundred amp load on the battery whilst checking the voltage. This is a non-destructive test; in the U.S., Advanced Auto Parts and probably quite a few other places will do a free battery test for you. Since this test consists, pretty much, of clamping the test load to the battery terminals and hitting a button (i.e., dead stupid to do) and a failed battery means they get to try and sell you a new one, it's appears to be a cost effective way to drum up business.

    KBeck
     
  11. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Just keep in mind this little battery never sees more than ~30A load at boot up.
    Those little terminals and the battery itself is not designed for one of those old school "Load Testers" that can pull
    +200 Amps.
    It may be abusive to load these little batteries with that much current.

    In aircraft they test the battery's capacity.
    A set current draw is applied to the battery for a set time. Sometimes it will be done at the one hour rate.
    Example: 32 Ahr battery should put out 32 A for one hour.
    If the battery produces 85% of its rated capacity it is good to go.
     
  12. tedjohnson

    tedjohnson Member

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    OK How about this test - Put an accurate DMM across the jump start terminal to ground. Read the OL voltage, then turn on the headlight switch and turn the engine on to ready and now read the voltage under maybe a 10 - 15 amp load from the headlights, etc. My 2010 61Kmi, read OL of 12.7, loaded 12.1 volts. So the battery internal resistance is now about .06 Ohms.... wonder what a new battery reads....
     
  13. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    ted, I don't understand your test.
    As soon as you turn on the car on to Ready, the DC to DC converter comes online and the LV bus is now at ~14.2 vdc.
    If you had a clamp-on Ammeter you could tell what the draw is from just the headlights and measure the capacity that way. (You stop at 10 VDC doing this type of capacity testing.)

    But the dang headlight turn themselves off, correct?
     
  14. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

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    Get a battery tester and stop guessing :eek:
     
  15. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Which exact type of battery tester do you recommend?
    There are:
    Load
    Capacity
    The high tech internal resistance and other sulfation voo-doo ones.
     
  16. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

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  17. tedjohnson

    tedjohnson Member

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    NO as soon as you press once the aux feed comes on which turns on the headlights if the switch is set for that, and the voltage drops - try it....
     
  18. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    ted, OK, that's not Ready. I'm with you now.
     
  19. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    From the Toyota Repair Manual:
     

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  20. tedjohnson

    tedjohnson Member

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    Yes I followed the Toyota test and got a reading of 12.1 volts after 30 sec of headlights on. The test only says that the battery needs to be recharged, not replaced. I was looking for some indication to catch a battery before failure on the road sets in.