Auto brake

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by maiki, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I haven’t told my story yet but I just wrapped up the business of replacing a 2018 prius totaled due to electrocution/lightning strike for a 2019 Prime. YES they will give you a low initial appraisal. It’s not their first rodeo and they do this everyday so when you complain, there will be push back and barriers placed to persuade one to give up and accept. Gotta’ keep on them. They KNOW used car prices have gone up a lot.
     
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  2. PT Guy

    PT Guy Senior Member

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    Maiki wrote: "I have full collision coverage (with $1000 deductible), but don't know if it is that "replacement coverage"."

    Pull out the full copy of your insurance policy. Read what it says. Unless they offered and you bought replacement coverage, you don't have it. Probably the policy says that if totaled they will pay the actual cash value, but get their exact wording. Amica is supposed to be one of the good ones, so talk with them on the phone or stop into an office. Find an Amica Insurance Office | Amica Don't get into your details yet. Just ask for a full explanation of what they do for the customer when the car is totaled. Have your policy in hand at the time and get any wording you don't understand explained to your satisfaction. Never assume what something means. Find out for sure.

    As others have said, expect them to come in with a somewhat reasonable value, but on the low side. That's what the adjuster's boss requires them to do. Use the tools you have, including kbb.com, edmonds.com, cars.com, autotrader.com, and nada.com to figure a fair actual cash value for your car considering the mileage and condition. A couple of hours of research can pay off very well.

    California is one of the states that uses a Total Loss Formula. I found this: Your insurer will then use a total loss formula, or TLF. Under this formula, a vehicle is totaled if the cost of repairs when added to the salvage value is equal to or more than the actual cash value.

    If you have an outstanding loan balance, that gets paid (if there is enough money), and you get the rest of the money, if any. Gap insurance (available cheapest probably from your car insurer) covers the gap in value between your loan balance on the car and your equity in the car. As soon as the equity is greater than the balance you can drop the gap coverage and save that cost.
     
    #22 PT Guy, Sep 20, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The short default answer is NO! This is not a self-driving system, but just a driver assist system. The driver still has primary responsibility. (There are no true self driving cars on the consumer market yet, the technology just isn't ready.) If you don't alter your driving diligence, this system will prevent some collisions, and will reduce the severity of some others, but won't (can't) prevent or reduce all of them.

    If you do alter your driving diligence, e.g. reduce it on the assumption that the car will make up, you could actually be at greater collision risk. At today's technology level, still quite immature, this is a very easy trap to fall in to.

    This doesn't mean that Toyota can't be held liable. It is always possible that you might find something where they didn't do sufficient due diligence. But considering all the warnings and disclaimers and legalese that went into place before these systems were marketed, that will be an extremely high hurdle to get over, to prove that their errors were greater than those of the driver.

    Here are just a couple items from your 2018 Owner's Manual. There is a lot more essential reading about this in there:

    upload_2021-9-20_10-25-35.png

    upload_2021-9-20_10-26-45.png
     
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  4. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Just out of interest - were you using DRCC (RADAR Cruise) at the time? Or driving using accelerator/brake etc yourself? I've noticed a few times that the "BRAKE" notice seems to come up more often when in DRCC mode.

    Also - what speed roughly?
     
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  5. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Update: I was told by my insurance today that they will not repair it, but will pay me something. They have not figured out the amount yet, but will let me know within a couple days. Still in pain and shock from the accident, I would prefer not dealing with the stress (would have preferred repair, but not an option) If I don't agree with the amount they say they will pay me, how do I dispute that?

    Now I have to decide what kind of car to buy? Prime again, or something else? Anyone here looked at other plug-in hybrid options, and compared with the Prime? For instance, longer EV life would be nice. (Anyone looked at the Honda Clarity?) Also, I kind of get the impression that the Prime is rather flimsy. Anyone else thought that? For instance, the traffic was moving slow at the time of the collision. I don't know what speed I was driving, but it could not have been very fast. Yet the front end is totally smashed up. (I may upload a photo later.) (The rest of the car looks fine BTW.) The air bags were activated and hit me hard. Yet the car in front of me only was slightly damaged, nothing like my car. Fortunately no injuries in it, air bags did not activate. Why was my Prime so much more damaged? Have others found the Prime to be more flimsy and less sturdy than other cars, more easily damaged? (Perhaps due to using very lightweight materials to get better fuel efficiency numbers?) And of course that auto-braking not working to prevent the collision.

    I like my Prime, and would prefer it be repaired. But since I need to buy a new car, I think I should look at other options too. I like driving EV, but still would be scared about all-electric. (What if a power outage at home, and can't charge it?) Nice to have the gas option too. So another Prime, or a different PHEV? Anyone here compared different ones? Why did you choose Prime? (One reason I did is that Toyota has a good reputation for reliability and safety. But I am not sure about that after this accident?)
     
    #25 maiki, Sep 23, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  6. maiki

    maiki Member

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    No, not using DRCC, but totally driving myself. I don't know what the speed was, and am not good at estimating that. However, the traffic was heavy and moving slowly. So it could not have been very fast. Which causes me to wonder (as I recently wrote in another comment) about the sturdiness of the Prime? Although it could not have been very fast, the front of my Prime was totally smashed up, and the airbags deployed and hit me hard. Yet the car in front of me, that I hit, only had minor damage, was drivable, no airbag deployment, and the driver was not hurt at all (thankfully). Yet why was my Prime damaged so much more?
     
  7. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Thanks, Fotomoto. Please tell us more about how you dealt with insurance to get a better amount. I have never done that before. (Not to mention still in pain, shock, and stressed from the accident, so hard now to deal with the additional stress of insurance and a new car purchase.) (Which is why I would have preferred they repair it, but now clear that won't happen.)

    BTW, I see in your list of cars the Honda Clarity listed. I am not familiar with it, but from I understand it is also a PHEV, but with about double the EV range of the Prime. Since I have to decide now what kind of new car to buy, can you tell us about that car and how it compares with Prime? (Have you replaced your Prime yet?)
     
  8. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    With a Rear-End hit, the AIRBAGS won't go off - unless it hits the car in front hard.

    Hard to tell - often angles, weights of vehicles. Frontal damage is always worse than rear - but he could well have structural damage underneath which isn't visible - can travel a long way. I well remember a tiny Suzuki Jimny clipped a huge LandCruiser - the Jimny had superficial damage - but the Cruiser rolled and was a write-off.

    The front of cars is designed to crumple - considerably, to absorb the damage. And because of all the stuff - A/C, radiators, battery etc in the front which gets damaged - and Airbags too - it's easy to write-off a vehicle with front-end damage.

    They're an exceptionally safe car - awarded a "TOP SAFETY PICK+"

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime (iihs.org)

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  9. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Well I’m probably not the best person to ask as I have only one experience at doing this because after nearly 50 years of driving, a wife with 40+ years of driving and two kids who are proving to be good drivers, we’ve never had an accident! (Knocking on wood, fingers AND toes crossed!). As I said, the prius was totaled due to weather so I was dealing with replacement value not a repair so it was MUCH easier to prove values by researching and providing data back to them often in the form of “tersely worded” emails or voicemails. They eventually performed another market eval (so they said) that came very close to my estimate (minus deductible).

    TL;DR: Clarity is the nicer vehicle. It was designed and built for the USA while the Prime was ordered by the USA but given one designed for multiple markets. I would confidently recommend either.

    I’m not replacing the Clarity for the Prime. The Prime is replacing my daughters totaled 2018 Prius II. Trying to find a matching replacement here in south Texas was futile so while looking on-line I found many Primes were in the same price range as our “bare bones” II even with shipping added in. Eventually ordered a clean 2019 Prime Plus from California. I have less than 1k miles driving it but it’s so similar to our now former 2018 G4 Prius that most of it was already known.

    PRO’S: It’s a plug-in from Toyota. The one real big surprise is the EV power compared to the II. Nice. True EV mode. Works very well with OpenPilot. HD and SAT radio. DIN radio. MPG can be even better than the hybrid version. Long gas range. Seems quieter than the hybrid but lots of variables including tires. Known for reliability yet I can also work on it if need be. My daughter is super happy with the vehicle!

    NEG’S: There’s the known limitations: “short” EV range, 4 passenger, small hatch, no spare, etc., but the worst things for me are the lack of a rear wiper (it’s parked outside partially under a tree) and the charge port location. Neither are super big issues but sometimes it’s the little things..... especially on a daily basis. Also, no BSW and rear cross traffic in the base Plus. Styling (I personally like it better than the hybrid).

    Clarity:

    It’s a bigger car (bigger than a hybrid Camry) and a sedan so it will never be an exact apples to apples comparison to the Prime but they are both plug-in passenger cars sold in the USA so we do compare them. :) It comes in either a base or touring trim with the key differences being the touring gets leather, power memory seats and factory nav (LOL at the latter but actually quite handy in remote areas with limited cell). If two drivers, get the touring for the memory function. Otherwise the models are identical.

    PRO’S: It’s a plug-in from Honda. The Clarity has better driver instrumentation that most can immediately understand and use. Like the prime, the only thing not self-explanatory is the HV charge mode (push and hold mode button). EV is strong, double the EV range, and has regen paddles (YES!) and a sport/pwr mode but the 1.5L ICE generator is smaller than the 1.8L Prime and comes on sooner if pressed for big power. Since I strive to drive efficiently, I don’t have issues with unintentional ICE starts in either vehicle. Both ride nice but the Clarity is clearly a step above in overall comfort and NVH. Just like the Teslas I’ve test driven, the large battery pack gives the car a more “substantial” feel. It averages about 42-44mpg at highway speeds similar to our old G2 Prius. 6.6 kwhr L2 charge rate (twice as fast as prime). HD and SAT radio. CarPlay/AA standard, I added a wireless dongle for true hands free operation.

    Trunk is spacious (bigger than a Camry hybrid) with pass thru and a smaller hidden sub-floor trunk space (charge cord, etc). Numbers can’t tell you everything and overall I find it’s more versatile than the Prime’s wedge-shaped hatch area plus more secure. YMMV. I have an old Mazda 5 for truck/van duties. Lots of options (some, like my wife, say bewildering) in the vehicle’s menu settings. A precious few 21’s (maybe) still left that qualify for the $7500 credit ($10k here in Texas). So far, extremely reliable just like the Prime.

    NEG’S: Styling (I personally like it). HV range is 300 miles w/7 gal tank but this also means super fast fill ups. ICE can be loud at max power but more so for new owners not accustomed to eCVT behaviors. Sedan..... yet still could benefit from a rear wiper. No spare. Infotainment system is 2016 tech and like the Prime’s “better” units cannot be swapped out. NO VOLUME KNOB! This is a big deal to me and many others. Honda learned and brought it back company wide but alas the Clarity was not updated. Can be made to work with OpenPilot but not easy. No BSW or Rear cross traffic (does have a right turn camera that works OK) and low-Rez backup cam. A few reports of A/C condenser quality issues; Honda responded with an extended warranty to all. I got an aftermarket intake screen to help protect it from rocks.

    As one can see, both vehicles’ NEG categories aren’t filled with super critical things/deal breakers but I think it shows where both manufactures cut costs. Having said that, I say you can’t go wrong with either. IMO.

    hope this helps
     
  10. maiki

    maiki Member

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    I received a valuation from my insurance company today.. $22,745. My car is 2018 Prius Prime Advanced Trim, and I only put in a little over 7000 miles on it in the three years. I guess I have to submit to them proof that my car was advanced, and the mileage on it.

    I guess they figure the absolutely lowest valuation they can for a base 2018 PP, based on an average amount of miles used. I will have to find other info to prove to them its worth more.

    How much do you think I should be able to get for the car as described?
     
    #30 maiki, Sep 24, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what did you pay for it?
     
  12. maiki

    maiki Member

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    First of all, I originally made a mistake in my comment above, now corrected. Their valuation is $22,745. That other number is with taxes added.

    I don't recall exactly what I paid, but I think more than $3500. Again, the Advanced Trim, and I added a few more extras.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    did you mean $35,000.?
     
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  14. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    It sounds like they're lowballing you. To replace a 2018 Advanced with around 10,000 miles would cost at least $28k. I would come back with screenshots from prices on cars.com, cargurus.com, autotrader.com to show them how much it would cost you to get a replacement with the same year, trim, and mileage. Good luck
     
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  15. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Yes, I meant that.. Just looked it up. Very close to that. I paid $34,700.
     
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  16. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Thank you. Yes, I need to do that. Thank you.
     
  17. Dael

    Dael Member

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    2020 manual pg.385
    It is VERY hard to find the pre-collision stuff:
    Move to the gear, keep pressing down, there is no listing, imagine it is below the Vehicle settings. it will then pop up.
    upload_2021-9-26_2-0-46.png
     
    #37 Dael, Sep 26, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    have you looked at the used market for value? i know there probably isn't much stock these days.

    plug your car into kbb.com for one data point
     
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  19. maiki

    maiki Member

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    I never changed that setting, it was at default.
     
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    That's an odd thing to say ........since you seem to be asking how to change it.

    It appears that in their infinite stupidity, they will not allow you to disable the automatic braking permanently.
    But those settings mention nothing about "braking", only the warning.
    So unless there is a secret hidden option, all you can do is change the "pre-collision warning timing" to "later" and see if that helps with your problem.

    If that doesn't help.......and your Toyota dealer has no other ideas, I STRONGLY recommend that you file a complaint with the NTSB and/or the NHTSA about this safety hazzard which might cause you to be rear-ended.

    These new "self driving" features are getting some attention lately.......in other brands.
     
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