battery capacity (estimated range) decreased by 30%

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by hox, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. hox

    hox Junior Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    I apologize if my post is redundant. My issue is not with my battery usage, which I fully anticipate not being as efficient in the winter vs summer driving. I have a 2020 Prime limited with 11,158 miles. Bought new in March 2020. I bought it specifically because my work commute is 19 miles round trip. I enjoyed 100% EV driving the first 6 months, which would use 19-20 miles of the estimated 30. Now in 2022, my full overnight charge is only registers as 19.1 miles (originally it was ~30). I believe 25 miles is the listed EV range. I can no longer commute round trip solely in EV mode. Is it normal for the charge capacity to lose this much at only 11K miles?

    Thanks for everyone's thoughts.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, completely. unfortunately, 25 miles is only an estimate based on epa controlled testing. as you said, winter vs summer is expected.
    and of course, there are many other factors involved. heat usage, tire pressure, driving style and etc.
    how did it do during the winter of 20/21?
     
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  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you bought the car in March 2020, then this is the second winner. How did the car operate last winter? If it did better than this winter, then is this winter particularly colder than last winter? Unfortunately, in a colder climate, losing up to ~50% of the EV range in the wintertime is perfectly normal. I bought my 2021 PP last July and it has only 4K miles on it. I was getting an average of ~35miles of EV range (42miles was my top EV range on the record) before it got cold. Now it is cold, I am lucky if I can get a 20miles of EV range on colder days.

    This is my third Prius Prime (2017, 2020, and now 2021). All of them behaved similarly in colder months. You really can't avoid this loss of EV range during winter.
     
  4. hox

    hox Junior Member

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    Thanks for the replies. @salamander King (love that name) what does your range show at first start up? First winter with the car my the stated range at full charge at startup was ~30 miles. I understand how cold temps can affect the actual mileage I will get on a full charge. But now I am showing 19 at startup and only getting 15-17 miles before the ICE kicks in.
     
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Mine is now showing ~25miles (with HVAC) or ~29miles (without HVAC), but the EV range shown on the GOM is meaningless. I can make it show near 50 miles if I manipulate the EV/HV driving by switching. Likewise, if I am very careless or my wife drives the car for a few days, it will show ~20 miles or lower in very short order.

    What is your monthly average miles/kWh shown on the Eco diary? If it shows a very rapid drop like mine, then it is not a surprise that your EV range on the GOM drops very quickly.
    upload_2022-1-10_16-25-55.png
     
    #5 Salamander_King, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    forget the guess o meter, if you were able to make your commute last winter, and nothing else has changed, you need to look at other things besides the battery.
    the reason i say that is that nothing can be done about the battery, but if it is something else, like a dragging brake, it can be rectified.
     
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  7. hox

    hox Junior Member

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    I keep my car in EV mode. My Avg miles/kWh never gets above 3.5, lately it has been 2.2-2.5 from Oct-Dec 2021. My AC is turned off and I have my temp set to 70F. I have no drag when coasting up to a light, so likely it it is not a stuck brake caliper I think what I am seeing is my battery's charge capacity has degraded. Same route to work, nothing else has changed and last winter, I could easily make the round trip in EV mode. Now I come up miles short unless I really slow down.

    Dealer said they would need to keep the car a few days, run the battery down, and then check its charge and capacity. Not something I can accommodate right now. But come spring, I will take them up on this test, as I will have 1 year left in my warranty. Will repost once I learn something from the stealership.
     
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  8. hox

    hox Junior Member

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    I keep my car in EV mode. My Avg miles/kWh never gets about 3.5, lately it has been 2.2-2.1 from Oct-Dec 2021. My AC is turned off and I have my temp set to 70F. I have no drag when coasting up to a light, so likely it it is not a stuck brake caliper I think what I am seeing is my battery's charge capacity has degraded. Same route to work, nothing else has changed and last winter, I could easily make the round trip in EV mode. Now I come up miles short unless I really slow down.

    Dealer said they would need to keep the car a few days, run the battery down, and then check its charge and capacity. Not something I can accommodate right now. But come spring, I will take them up on this test, as I will have 1 year left in my warranty. Will repost once I learn something from the stealership.
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks for the update. It will be very interesting to see what they will find out about the battery capacity. When you do take it for the test, make sure you get a hard copy of the result of the battery analysis. I have not seen one. It would be very informative what Toyota's diagnosis shows on the battery capacity test like this.

    BTW, your statement below indicates that the problem is not the battery capacity. The monthly miles/kWh reduction seen in Oct-Dec is perfectly in agreement with what you are seeing on the GOM. At the number, you are recording, which is below 3 miles/kWh, it would be very hard to get anything above 20 miles of EV range either on GOM or in real life. Remember that you have less than 6kWh of usable traction battery capacity for EV mode when the battery is full. 2.2miles/kWh x 6kWh = 13.2miles. So, at this efficiency, you are not going too far even if you have a healthy full capacity traction battery. The EPA number of 25miles of EV range corresponds to 4.1 miles/kWh (assuming 6kWh of usable battery energy on EV mode). So, if your monthly or daily average on the Eco diary is showing less than 4miles/kWh, then Toyota is likely to say your driving is causing the low efficiency, not the capacity of the battery. If it was the battery capacity issue, then your monthly average should stay the same yet you see the total EV range diminishes.
    Just for a reference point, I have never gotten my monthly average EV efficiency to go below 3miles/kWh on my PPs. For my current 2021 PP, the overall average is currently sitting at 5.1miles/kWh with a range of 4.0 to 5.6 for the last 6 months. (4.0miles/kWh is for Dec average).

    For my 2017 PP, the graph below was the plot of my monthly EV efficiency number. The lowest points were 3.1miles/kWh seen in the second winter, Dec and Jan (the first month on the graph is July). One data point showing 0.0miles/kWh is when I did an entire month without charging the car. Thus everything was HV mode and no EV efficiency was recorded. Naturally, the dip in the average happens in the winter months when it's cold. My third-year average was much better than the first two because I experimented with artificially increasing the miles/KWh value by switching EV/HV. But the overall real EV range was not changed much. That is I get 30-33miles in warmer months (5.0-5.5miles/kWh x 6kWh) and 18-21miles in the coldest winter months (3.0-3.5miles/kWh x 6kWh) and somewhere in between in shoulder seasons.

    upload_2022-1-14_10-53-41.png
     
    #9 Salamander_King, Jan 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    try setting the temp to 'low' and fan off.

    ask the dealer what that will cost. if it isn't covered by warranty, (and it isn't) you will have to pay.

    any change in tires or pressure?
     
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