BATTERY LIFE PROBLEMS WITH PRIUS PLUG-IN

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Ronbo, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    There is a mechanical trunk release inside the car.
     
  2. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    I went to Europe for two months and had No problem. First I max charged the HV Bat. Then I disconnected the 12V. When I returned both batteries were fine. I left the trunk slightly ajar so I could open it upon returning. I also keep a alarm battery for jump starting.
     
  3. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I thought you were supposed to leave the HV battery empty.
     
  4. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    When you say empty, I believe you mean 'empty of EV miles' which is about 20-25% full. I am sure you know that but just in case someone will not get the wrong idea...
     
  5. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    It was 20% empty. Personally it doesn't make much sense to me, I would rather know that all the batteries are in a full charge state! From that point the charge can deteriorate, if that is the case. Whereas, if I had left the Hv at empty, that is 20 % left, things can only go downhill from there.
     
  6. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    The issue is not gradual leakage; the issue is that leaving a lithium battery at a high state of charge for any length of time will cause the battery to chemically deteriorate and lose its ability to hold as much charge. Thus the recommendation to not leave it fully charge for long periods of time.
     
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  7. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    What is the definition of a high SOC ? 80% Or 120%. What is the definition of a long time ? The HV Battery can only charge to 80% as designed by Toyota Engineers. Does normal deterioration of SOC NOT exist on a lithium?
     
  8. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Toyota designed the SOC to be between 20% and 80% Neither should be considered low or high, since I could not charge the battery over 80%, that would be considered a normal full charge, correct ?
     
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    It's not that you are voiding the warranty by leaving it 'normal full charge' and I think people should charge whenever and wherever convenient to them.
    Toyota gave some guidelines that if you are making them a habit you will give the battery the chance to live longer. Not quantifying longer though.
     
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  10. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I agree with the others. You shouldn't leave the car at "full" longer than you need to.
     
  11. rockerdan

    rockerdan PiP Rocks!

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    I dont use my car all winter, I always leave large battery with NO EV miles left.....and then hook my battery tender JR to the rear small battery and keep tender plugged in to monitor 12v batt all winter. always works out great, I do this for all my toys and other vehicles as they tend to sit alot.

    Dan
     
  12. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Wouldn't it be safer to leave the large battery with ~50% charge Dan? There will be some natural discharge as it sits, and what you really want to avoid is letting it drop into the very low zone. Better to start at the middle (where it's perfectly safe) and let it drop to say the 20-30% range than start low and end in the danger zone.
     
  13. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I agree, common sense may say to leave it around 40% but the manual clearly says to have no EV miles left.
     
  14. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    And the suggestion is probably coming from the engineering department related to the HV battery. I picked mine up with no charge in the HV battery which either means Toyota is too cheap to provide a charge or their advice is founded in fact when sitting for an extended period of time.
     
  15. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    It's just odd advice, given that I would assume that like Tesla, these are basically off-the-shelf li-ion cells, and if you read the data sheets for li-ion batteries, they are all adamant about storing them at 30-50% SOC.

    http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_LiIon_Precautions.pdf

     
  16. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    Isn't the HV battery one big unit? If so, when depleting the EV miles to empty, what is the SOC for the remaining battery?
     
  17. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Yes, it just one big battery. About 20%, as I recall. So the recommendation in the users's manual to store the car at the "depleted" level is not that far from the 30-50% recommendation that others have seen. It may have just been easier for them to say that it should just be depleted rather to to try to specify some number of miles which would correspond to the desired SOC.
     
  18. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    That was my thinking as well, especially after reading zhenya's link to Panasonic.
     
  19. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    The 'hybrid portion' of the battery kicks in at about 0.9 miles of range, correct? If the entire pack is 4.4kWh, less 10% on the top and bottom giving us 3.5kWh of usable charge. Fully discharged to the cutoff point (10% remaining) would be .44kWh. At ~ 0.3kWh/mile that would mean we have .7kWh remaining when the EV portion of the battery is discharged and we have the buffer + hybrid portion remaining. This is only 16% SOC, and in storage it will fall from there.

    Someone can correct me if my math or numbers are wrong.
     
  20. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    No...even with all the HV portion depleted as well I don't think it falls below 20%. Been a while since I've watched my Torque though.
     
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