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Best way to traverse a mountain in a Prius?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by RoadNoise, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. RoadNoise

    RoadNoise Active Member

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    I've noticed when I travel over a 1000' mountain in my area, the battery is almost fully charged when I reach the top, which I don't view as helpful. I'd prefer an empty battery at the top and allow regenerative braking to top it off on the way down.

    Soooo, I'm thinking a better strategy would be to throttle up when climbing a mountain in order to to draw power from the battery rather than providing a charge. A bit counter intuitive but maybe a better power management scheme in such situations?
     
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  2. 'LectroFuel

    'LectroFuel Senior Member

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    Drive the car as you normally would. Not slow, not fast. If the speed limit is slow, then go as fast as you can while staying in the EV range of the meter.

    I always "freak out" when going down a hill on a full battery. "I'm not using my battery! All the energy is going to waste!"
     
  3. robsnyder20

    robsnyder20 Active Member

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    I maybe am not a great person to answer being that I am in Florida but I noticed the same thing after driving my car during a long stretch of open road that the battery is fully charged so what I do is force the car to go into battery by controlling the throttle and using the eco meter and use some of the battery a good mile back before hitting the brakes to stop
     
  4. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    What matters is the mpg (energy usage) you get. Powering up unnecessarily will use a lot more gas than cruising up at the speed limit, and might not use the battery as much as you think. You will need to try it out.
     
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  5. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Going up a mountain it's probably not possible to "PULSE'N'GLIDE" unless there's nobody behind you, and only in the odd place where it might level out. But like robsnyder20 mentioned about Open Road driving, that's where it is possible to play the PULSE'N'GLIDE game - needs patience and not much traffic around.

    Search for Pulse and Glide in the PriusChat search. It's also mentioned in the Owner's Manual but not in much detail..
     
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  6. Coast Cruiser

    Coast Cruiser Senior Member

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    My motto:

    Don't analyze it... Just drive it.

    That eliminates the confusion and frustration on my part. I don't drive mountains, but I know the Toyota engineers are much smarter than me, so I just let the car do what it's going to do. I don't even notice the "battery bars" anymore. I don't care if the car is operating in EV, or the gas engine is on... or both. It's gets me where I need to go, with 62 mpg. Can't complain about that.
     
  7. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

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    I would not worry about going up, but I would be ready to use B mode going down to save the friction brakes...
     
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  8. gvp1995

    gvp1995 Active Member

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    Just came back from 2000+ mile road trip. Mostly in the mountains. Up to 3000km. Combined mileage 53. I noticed a few things about mountain driving on Gen 4. First, on winding mountain roads with no cars around it is better to use the regular cruise control (I was wondering why was it there?!). Because of sometimes erratic behavior of DRCC probably due to reflection from the rocks. And second, I noticed that if I use DRCC going down the hill, say fix it on 65 mph, the car engages B for me to stay within this limit, which I don't recall my Gen. 2 was doing. This is cool. Sometimes the slope is so steep that B does not help, and the car keeps accelerating (meaning the brakes are not applied automatically), but still, it is a progress.
     
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  9. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    Toyota has missed a trick here. I suggested it in a post some time ago. If the Sat Nav data had topography info included so that the car knew about road gradients, when using the sat nav so the car knows where you are going thw nav could inform the State of charge and regen systems so that they could make better use of the battery to store energy when going down hill by emptying it more on the way up.
    The Prime could of course do this far more than the Lift back using its big battery, assuming it was not already charged to max.
    I thought that the Prime's PED system might be a version of this but it seems not. I.'ve been told that just advised the driver how to drive.
    Shame, cos working this way could make a decent improvement in efficiency on mountainous routes.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #9 GT4Prius, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Anyway to avoid this mountain? probably not, but just curious.
     
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  11. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I agree with this.
    Toyota has designed a lot of hardware and software to protect your battery and promote efficiency. Often I think people overthink what they "think" they need to do to make it "better".

    My point of view is that if you reach the top of a hill with your battery on the upper 1/2 of being charged...Bravo to Toyota for finding a way to preserve and add to that energy while going uphill.
     
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Still, hauling a ton or two of steel on wheels up and over a mountain is tough work, there's no free lunch. And doing it daily will accelerate the car's aging. If there's a longer route that skirts the mountain I'd go with that if at all possible.
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  13. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Why go over or skirt..... when you can go through!

    Yee Haw!

    I'm all for blasting a hole through the mountain. But getting the proper permits would be difficult.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  15. Coast Cruiser

    Coast Cruiser Senior Member

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    The real reason, is because I'm "technology-challenged." ;) That's why I'm such a big believer in personal simplicity. Keeping things as simple as possible in my life. My Prius is a great car, and as The Electric Me said, I don't want to try and "overthink it." I'm way better off, just letting that hybrid car do it's thing. :D

    I get in it. I push the start button. I put it in drive. And off I go… I know it sounds nuts, but I no longer even look at all the gauges and displays. Only the gas gauge. That's about it.
     
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  16. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Fwiw, just get on with it! It's much easier to beg for forgiveness afterwards than beg for permission first!

    ;):cautious::barefoot:
     
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  17. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    I would have to question the added value. The firmware won't let the battery get below 2 bars. Even if you start with a full battery, the energy involved is the equivalent of about 1/64 of a gallon of gasoline. Now a PIP or Prime might be a different story.
     
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  18. RoadNoise

    RoadNoise Active Member

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    A "charge defeat" button would be nice. I know Coast Cruiser would be all for it ;).

    Hey, some of us enjoy gaming the car and dwelling on mileage minutia. Almost 5000 miles and sitting at over 69 mpg. Can almost taste 70.:)
     
  19. Lucifer

    Lucifer Senior Member

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    When descending, the brakes simply store energy, they don't actually touch the brake pads to the rotors, well, at 20mph and below they do, when ascending, obviously, the car is using the traction battery, and charging it, just pick a speed, if you try to pulse and glide going up hil???
     
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  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    P = mghv/x

    where

    P = power (watts)
    m = mass (kilogrammes)
    g = 9.8m/s²
    h = height of mountain (metres)
    v = velocity (m/s)
    x = distance of the highway up the mountain.

    Using a local mountain pass (Up to 8% grade. Avg 3%)

    m = 1,390kg (weight of base Gen 4 Prius)
    h = 930m
    v = 100km/h = 27.78 m/s
    x = 25km = 25,000m

    P = (1,390*9.8*930*27.78)/25000
    = 14076.06 Watts
    = 14.07 kW
    = 18.5 hp

    You need 14kW/18.5hp to make it up the mountain pass. It'll take you 15 mins to climb that hill.

    Considering that the NiMH battery has a capacity of 1.31kWh (someone please verify this) and you'll probably only have access to 60% of it (20-80% capacity), that's 0.786 kWh. For 15 mins, it can output a maximum of 3.14kW before it's drained. (or at 28kW max power, it'll give you 1 min and 40 seconds of EV power before it's drained.


    I don't know why I did the math but if anyone's curious, you can't EV up a hill for very long :p.

    For P&G, you will lose so much speed on the glide portion, I don't think it's worth it (because you will be using excessive power to pulse up to speed, outside of the engine's efficient range).

    I'd say pick a balance between the engine's rpm efficiency and the speed at which you can safely make it up the mountain.
     
    #20 Tideland Prius, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016