Bloom Energy: Hype or Hope?

You put natural gas in, you get electricity out. It's a generator, but quieter and more expensive. If you need a a quiet generator that runs on natural gas and you are willing to pay a lot more than an ICE-powered generator would cost, this is for you.

How is this earth-shattering???

 

Lots of hype, some hope that they will be able to lower the cost of a working fuel cell. I probably wouldn't invest in it at this point though.

 

I saw the 60 Minutes piece on Sunday and at first thought wow, esp. because of the particular VC involved, then I heard about it being a fuel cell which was a let down. But then, they pointed out the impressive list of customers so far.

I'm not sure... I wish I had more background in fuel cells. Are their units, for a given output that much cheaper than other fuel cell implementations? How much would a plant not using these cells but running on natural gas cost per unit of output?

 

It really depends on the cost of the energy sources. Lets say getting natural gas pumped to your home for this generator costs half as much as the equivalent amount of electricity. Then for someone who uses $100/month of electricity, they would save $600 per year - at the $3000 target price they're going for, that's a 5 year payback, which isn't bad.

Now, lets say people realize that and start to buy these... to compete, electric companies lower the price of electricity, while at the same time the increased demand for natural gas raises its price.

Suddenly the payback isn't there. But everyone who waited it out "on the grid" gets their electricity cheaper because of the investment of their neighbors.


I think where this really has potential is in creating "power hubs" all over the suburbs. By hooking these up to existing gas lines, electric companies can take down a bunch of the high power lines, transformer stations, and all that and reduce the infrastructure cost. And as a bonus to customers, it would mean fewer blackouts!

 

Depends on a lot of things, mostly hype at this point, too many variables for this to work on large scale, control of natural gas and what the electric companies decide are the key, with the consumer being the loser if lobbyists have their way. Remember, its never about making things better with corporations, its about making them more expensive.

 

I don't know whether bloom is more hype or hope, but if it's good for the environment it'll be hip.

 

I like the idea of "power hubs". Small scale distributed power generation that can help balance the grid when the sun is not out and the wind is not blowing.


Could these run on propane and therefore work for off grid / remote locations?

 

Not that big a deal, lots of competitors.

Made it on slashdot.
Slashdot Hardware Story | Fuel Cell Marvel "Bloom Box" Gaining Momentum

 

Probably. Propane and natural gas are very similar.

Another issue is that fuel cells have a shorter working life than an internal combustion engine. So this is not a once-for-a-lifetime investment.

I still think that once the hype settles and this thing really comes to market, it will be a solution for emergency or off-grid electricity when you are willing to pay a premium for silence. Maybe a very big premium.

And remember that you are still using non-renewable fossil fuel and putting carbon into the atmosphere.

 

Here's a comment below the story in the above link:

So I'm back to what I said: It's viable if you want quiet and are willing to pay a premium.

Another comment also pointed out that if you buy one of these things, you are either withdrawing money from an investment and losing the income, or you are borrowing money. Either way, that loss must be added to your total operating cost.

If I had an isolated place off the grid, I'd much rather have quiet power than noisy power, and I'd consider one of these things and compare operating cost and environmental impact (fossil fuel use!!!) with renewable technologies like PV and wind.

 

I've been advocating generators at home for a long time. Of course most of us already have them in the form of the Prius. Certainly if this is a working yet inexpensive fuel cell it could be a good (one-of-many) alternatives.

I do have two questions about the writeup, however. If it uses a hydrocarbon fuel, "low emissions" can't refer to carbon dioxide. The carbon has to go somewhere! And what is "wireless" about it? Surely they're not planning to transmit kilowatts wirelessly around the house? Even it it's very efficient, it can't be better or cheaper than the 99%+ efficiency you would get just by wiring it to your breaker box.

Richard

 

so this runs on hydrogen gas thats provide tru pipelines?
is hydrogen not under exstreem pressure and so small ( the protons ;-) ) it will leave the pipeline at several locations where there is a pipeline connection.?

 

maybe using solar panels to produce hydrogen energy ( lose 50% of the electric energy in the progress )and use that to run the generator ;-0

 

What would bother me is the fact that the operating temperature is 1000 degrees C. At that temperature steel glows lemon yellow! So unless the elements of the box that operate at those temps are strictly localized, the potential for fires is very high.
OTOH, not knowing the details I'm merely speculating. But the idea does seem interesting.

 

Low emissions probably refers to the absence of the products of incomplete combustion, which you get from internal combustion engines.

Carbon would be the same as from burning the same fuel. So there would be less carbon than from coal, since coal is mostly carbon, whereas natural gas has a lower percentage of carbon.

Also, coal has nasty heavy metals, which natural gas does not, so it's lower emissions than coal plants on that grounds as well.

I presume that when they say "wireless" what they really mean is that if you have neighborhood power generation you don't need those big cross-country power line wires. You still need wires from the generator to the end user. There is no practical means of transmitting electricity wirelessly. And you need a means of getting the fuel to the generator, so you'll replace the transmission wires with pipelines.

A fuel cell cannot run on sunlight. However you can use a PV array to produce H2 via electricity, and store the H2 to run the fuel cell at night. Inefficient, but possible.