Bolt Price (official MSRP)

Discussion in 'GM Hybrids and EVs' started by iplug, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    The good:
    -$37,495 before any EV incentives for the base trim including the mandatory destination charge
    2017 Bolt EV Priced at $37,495

    The not so good:
    -DC fast-charging is not standard and will be offered as a $750 option for both trims

    Still, first one out the gate and in California take $10k off the price for Fed + State incentives.
     
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  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    DC Quick charging is only needed for long trips. That's not the primary purpose of an EV. I charge my Leaf with L1, the 110vac 13A "emergency" EVSE.

    It is great that they are actually releasing it. Still not sold on quality.
     
  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    We have a Leaf as well. 107 miles is enough for commuting range for us and most Americans. But it's not great for road trips as it only has one of two required things - DC fast charging. What it lacks is range.

    For the Bolt without the DC option, it's also not a good road tripper.

    Yes, yes, go rent something else for the road trip. But then why not just buy/lease a cheaper gen 1 Leaf instead.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Because people are stupid. They want the 300mile EV so they can drive 40 miles and not "feel" that they're empty. My guess is many of those battery packs will sit barely cycled at all and just a waste of money of lithium. Just like the people that buy huge trucks so they can tow their boat they don't own 1000 miles on the vacation they won't ever take.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A gen1 Leaf may not have enough range to be a year round car for some.
    The $2,445 difference between the Bolt LT and Leaf SV gets a person a more than 100% increase in range and an active cooling system. Both mean longer battery life in the car over the same commute. The DC fast charger is extra, but the longer range means the Bolt doesn't need it on trips in which the Leaf would.

    The real competition will be the Ionic BEV, if Hyundai prices it for under $30k out the door.
     
  6. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    It's a lot more than that. $37,495 (Bolt MSRP) - $34,200 (Leaf SV MSRP) - $6,000 (Manufacturer cash back) = $9,295 less for Leaf SV
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Bolt MSRP includes delivery; the Leaf doesn't, which is $850. The manufacturer incentive brings the Leaf down to what it is likely actually worth. The 107 mile range still has to work for a person year round, even at the $25k price point. Then the longer Bolt range may mean the car can be used beyond daily commute needs, and worth the extra cost.

    GM had some great lease rates on the Volt, I expect the Bolt will too. There has also been good incentives on GM cars this year. These will likely apply to the Bolt after the newness wears off. GM needs to move the car for ZEV and CAFE credits. So the price advantage that the aging Leaf model has over the "not in showrooms" yet Bolt will likely shift over the year.

    Between the Bolt, Ioniq BEV, and arriving shortly gen2 Leaf, this is probably the year to get a new Leaf if it works for you.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the mass state incentive is 2500, i will give it a serious look.
     
  9. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    I suggested a net price of $9,295 less for the Leaf compared to the Bolt. That's a worst case scenario. But even with destination charge, the difference is still significantly even larger.

    We leased our SV in May 2016 and the adjusted capitalized cost was over $12.3k lower than the Bolt. The deals are even better now with the Bolt about to roll out.

    Check out the mynissanleaf.com website, which is the Leaf equivalent of PriusChat. Go to thread "Post Your Order Details Here".

    Here is the last SV purchase listed on that site (with premium package extras):

    State : NJ
    Metro area/city : Central NJ/Princeton area

    Color/trim: Black/Black SV
    Options: Premium Package/Floor Mats/Splash Guards/Kick Plates

    Total MSRP+destination charge: $37,120
    Total quote/price accepted (excluding tax/license): $24,821
    Total discount (or markup): $6,299 dealer, $4,000 nmac, $2,000 customer cash
    Additional fees: $324.50 DMV/State Fees, $429 Doc/Junk Fees
    Total after tax credits ($7,500 fed): $18,074.50 OTD
    Purchase or lease?: Purchase

    Dealer: Rt33 Nissan, Hamilton, NJ

    Delivery date: 8/31/16

    So $37,495 (Bolt MSRP) - $37,120 (Leaf SV + extras) + Leaf SV total discount $6,299 dealer, $4,000 nmac, $2,000 customer cash = $12,674 less for Leaf SV with extras than Bolt base trim.

    Even at this huge discount for a Leaf Gen 1 over a Bolt, there will likely be way more buyers for the Bolt - it's a premium many may be willing to pay.

     
  10. berylrb

    berylrb Member

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    YES, I bought a 2016 Volt because I had 305K on my 2004 Prius and just coouldn't wait anymore. I'll have the Volt for at least 10 years, unless the dealer wants to give a generous trade-in?! I'm not that concerned re the premium rather the best choice at the time.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually here in the Bay Area there's a high concentration of hyper commuters who commute 100+ miles in a day Vacaville to SF 100 miles, SF to SJ 100 miles, Tracy to Mountain View 100 miles, Los Banos ... you get the point.

    Do DC fast charging is really important for a commuter like me 53 miles one-way, it would take my Volt 3+ hours at a charge point Level 2 to recharge, but with DC like my Leaf brethren, only 30 minutes, eh?

    I wonder if Chevy will offer a $750 upgrade for the Volt?
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Your price comparison isn't a like to like one, because it relies on GM not offering any incentives. That is only going to happen if the Bolt is a major hit, and GM has trouble keeping production up to meet demand. The more likely scenario is like what we've seen with the gen4 Prius, where factory incentives were added once the initial demand was met.

    This is why I stuck to the MSRP for the comparison. Nissan can afford to discount more because the Leaf is due for a redesign and has a smaller battery, but GM sells more trucks than Nissan, and likely wants to entice people away from waiting a year or so for the Model 3.

    Extremely unlikely.
    The Volt has an ICE it is carrying around.
    The way fast charging ramps the voltage makes it likely that a Volt would take almost as long as a Leaf to reach full charge.
    The markets where PHEVs do have fast DC charge options is because the ability to charge at home isn't as likely as in the US, and if it is available, it is at slower rates. For example, the Prime has CHAdeMO in Japan. Electric service to many homes there mean level 2 charging isn't possible, and fully charging the Prime's 8.8kWh pack could take over 10 hours.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how is $2,000. customers cash a discount?
     
  13. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Seems unlikely to happen with the Volt.

    Once the Bolt’s competitors hit the field, the DC charging fast charging option may get included standard in the premium trim, perhaps in a year or two. Unlike Nissan, GM has not built/contributed substantially to DC fast charging stations/networks.

    This is an odd statement for at least a couple reasons:

    a) It wasn’t my comparison - you brought up the Leaf SV and compared prices, I just fleshed out the details to get to the correct final price difference.

    b) the comparison is still valid, and is still “like to like”. It does rely on all incentives from all parties as is required for the final price. GM not offering incentives must be included. MSRP, by itself, when comparing any items is irrelevant in most cases.

    New vehicles rarely come out with dealer/manufacturing incentives right out the gate. No one will get less than MSRP for some time with the Bolt, so that fact must be included in the comparison. GM will wait until demand eases and there is competition. But they have this whole market to themselves until Leaf Gen 2 and Tesla Model 3 roll out. That’s months away for the former and at least a year for the latter. The Model 3 is probably the bigger threat.


    It's an instant rebate. These things come and go month by month to move Leafs. They haven't gone anywhere in many months and instead keep getting sweeter with time.
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    $42,795 for the base Bolt LT. DCFC port and tire repair kit (and self-sealing tires) are standard equipment. No word on pricing for the Premier model.
     
  15. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Hmmm, wonder what the logic was for standard DCFC port in Canada but not U.S., even on Premier trim.

    What government incentives are to be had for the Bolt in Canada?
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Make the price look attractive? (Cause the LEAF only has it standard on the SL in Canada IIRC).

    No federal incentives but 3 provinces have their own incentives.

    British Columbia - $2,500 for 4kWh to 15kWh battery capacity. $5,000 above 15kWh. Additional $1,000 for FCEV

    Ontario - (this one is a bit more complicated)

    5 to 16 kWh - $6,000 to $10,000 based on battery capacity
    > 16kWh - Additional $3,000
    5 seats or more - Additional $1,000

    BUT if the MSRP is between $75,000 to $150,000, the maximum incentive value is $3,000.
    > $150,000 - no incentive

    After all of that, the total purchase incentive shall not exceed 30% of the MSRP.

    Quebec -

    EV - $8,000
    PHV - $500, $4,000 or $8,000 depending on the battery size
    Hybrids - $500
    Low-Speed EV - $1,000
    EV motorcycles - $2,000


    So obviously Ontario has the largest incentives which can drop the price by about $14,000 for the base Bolt LT if I did the calculations correctly.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You asked why not get the cheaper Leaf, and part of my response to that was that the Leaf wasn't that cheap. I went to Nissan's site, and had to 'build' a leaf to see their delivery charges. I now see that I could get 0% financing with $4000 cash back for my zip code, along with the lease deal. Any other incentives are buried or not there. Which will hurt Nissan if they want to sway buyers looking at the Bolt.

    The incentives are important for the final price, but we are discussing a car available for sale and one that isn't yet. I agree the Bolt won't have any incentives at first. That can change quickly though. 2016 was the first model year of the gen2 Volt. At times during this year, it was included in the "20% of MSRP" incentives Chevy was running on their cars.

    As I stated before, GM sells more trucks than Nissan. The Bolt's high mpge and multiplier for being a BEV will likely make it more valuable for GM to get on the road than maximizing the profits from it when it comes to their CAFE rating. That's the reason for the big incentives on their cars. Then there is the ZEV credits for CARB a sold Bolt will get them on top of balancing out their truck sales.

    The Bolt not having factory incentives for an extended period of time during the last year of the gen1 Leaf is an assumption that may not bear out. Then the people that would take a Leaf over a Bolt likely already got one, or are waiting for the Ioniq BEV.
     
  18. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Pretty opinionated and hard on people that you do not know .... or have any idea whatsoever about their short and long-term plans..
     
  19. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Opinionated but accurate. No reason to sugar coat the truth.

    Same people that buy huge F-350s around here because they need to "get through the snow". Well, I've done it for many years in FWD vehicles with 6-inches or less ground clearance. I've also been offroading in many places that are marked "4x4 only" with the Prius.

    What's even funnier is when the big truck they buy is RWD and not a 4x4. Come the first snow, they are the ones spinning out while I pass them all in the Leaf or Prius.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bloomberg claims gm to lose $8-9,000. per bolt, 'according to someone familiar with the matter'.
     
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