Brake Accumulator Pump vs ABS Accumulator Pump

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by outahere, Oct 2, 2021.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The above mixes up two things that both happened (and both do still sometimes happen).

    Nitrogen gas leaking past the metal bellows in the accumulator was the subject of the recall D0H. The recall applied to a particular batch of accumulators built with the bellows slightly undersize. Road vibrations would shake the bellows inside the can and lead to premature cracks. The story was in the defect information report for that recall.

    Accumulators from that defective batch were replaced in that recall. That doesn't necessarily mean that the non-defective ones are eternal; most car parts aren't, but they generally get covered by recalls or service campaigns if some defect is shortening their lifespan.

    The CSP discussed upthread, the warranty extension campaign ZJB, did not get announced because of nitrogen gas leaks in the accumulator, but because of hydraulic fluid leaks in the booster (actuator).

    The booster/actuator is full of small electrically-operated valves that direct the fluid. If they don't all close properly, fluid won't stay under pressure in the accumulator, but will flow back to the reservoir, forcing the pump to run. This is the problem you are having if you hear the pump constantly cycling while the car is sitting still. The campaign covers replacing both assemblies. The details are in this document.

    There was a dealer who asked NHTSA to open an investigation into how the actuator internal valves were going bad like that. If the investigation had gone through, we would probably know a lot more eventually (like, is it always one specific valve in the actuator? or several possible ones? can a defect causing the problem be identified?). But the dealer who requested the investigation eventually withdrew the request, so it looks like we'll have to wait longer for more details. The investigation summary is here.
     
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  2. Kate M

    Kate M Junior Member

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    Thank you so much.
    Had no luck getting repair covered by Toyota or paid by dealer seller.

    Returned the car for a full refund.
    Grateful for everyone’s support here.

    They waived the punitive $500 restocking fee, and blamed the oversight on a vendor who performed the pre sale inspection.

    I was told by the general manager they would be sending it to an auction yard. It was otherwise a pristine and very sweet car.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good move (y)
     
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  4. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Somehow I doubt they will send it to auction in this day and time when $1700 gets it running again. Unless their mechanics are booked far into the future with higher paying work. Or there is something else wrong. A "vendor" does pre-inspection work? Strange.

    It is a mystery to me why Toyota would not cover this under the csp. Secondary Coverage of 10 years or 150,000 miles. The only credible answer is the car may have a salvage title (meaning it was in a wreck and repaired) or the mileage may have been altered.

    Toyota won't cover a car with a salvage title. I know there is a service promoted on Priuschat to alter miles. Either way would warrant a trip to the auction and might encourage the dealer to give full refund.

    Overall, it seems to be a questionable dealer. Unfortunately the good dealers are becoming the exception as ownerships consolidate.
     

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    #24 rjparker, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Back in #18 the dealer revised their $1700 estimate to $2980.

    I was thinking $1700 sounded too good to be true....
     
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  6. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Agree. But $1700 would cover their cost to change the brake booster. The service advisor may have picked the wrong column when he initially quoted.
     
  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I think you got the best possible results considering everything involved. Sure it would have been nice if the Prius could have been repaired at a reasonable price, considering that was your preference and you had just purchased the car a few days ago. Again, in hindsight, you may have been lucky to have had the car misbehave so soon after purchase. Another week or two and they might not have been so kind as to the 500 as is charge.
     
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  8. Kate M

    Kate M Junior Member

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    Funny because it was mostly intuition based on past Prius driving experience that led me to know something was going on.
    No warning lights and variable driving data.

    Now I’m wondering...

    What is the best model year for a used Prius purchase for under $15k mileage considered, if I plan to drive it for 2-3 years?

    Welcoming opinions.
     
    #28 Kate M, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Depends what you can find in that price range but I would first look for a gen4 Prius, 2016 or newer. Major engineering improvements and better mpg than a gen3.

    Gen2s are getting old and gen3s are questionable because of engineering. If it had to be a gen3 Prius because of price, I might consider a 2015 hatchback or a 2015-17 v wagon simply because the piston rings were revised. 2016 and 17 v wagons were still gen3.

    Overall I recommend a conventional Civic, Accord, Corolla or Camry when buying used. Something like a 2016-18 Honda Civic which gets good mpg, some have advanced safety features and they are reliable.
     
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  10. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Counter point on Honda, Yes they are reliable like Toyota s are, and I don't know what Toyota maintenance schedule fees look like because of the A B C D maintenance fees I experienced with Honda. It wasn't cheap for the standard stuff alone!

    I suspect Toyota s maintenance fees are similar, but I really don't want to have to find out. I think that also might be why @rjp - suggests a non-hybrid. The maintenance fees on any hybrid currently can be twice the cost of a conventional car when a hybrid specific part is involved.
    I'd venture to say, don't be to dis swayed by your previous purchase, just because nobody caught an issue with the car before you got it. I think you noticing there was something odd about the car speaks at least one volume to keep in mind.. I'd be wondering why nobody caught a brake component issue too, unless the dealer was a Honda shop. Than all my bets would be off, due to my experiences with my Honda Hybrid.
    I do still enjoy the fuel cost savings of my old Honda Hybrid (fingers crossed) but I've been doing all the maintenance on it since 2013 when the warranty ran out. just my 2 cents...
     
    #30 vvillovv, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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  11. pmike

    pmike Member

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    I drove my 120k miles 2013 Prius Two for over half a year with the brake booster constantly trying to build pressure and brakes being kind of grabby. Understanding that getting the dealer to cover it without the codes was near impossible. One day it finally lit up like a Christmas tree and it was mechanical non vacuum boosted brakes only. Drove home, parked it, called dealer, provided the TSB, carefully drove to dealership. They covered the repair fully and noted the pads were low. Left spending $0 and just did the pads myself yesterday.
     
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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well, they're non-vacuum-boosted all the time. :) Prius brakes use an electric pump to store hydraulic fluid under high pressure. Engine vacuum wasn't an option because, sometimes, the engine isn't running.
     
  13. pmike

    pmike Member

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    Just like my wife, know what I mean not what I say. I guess power assisted would be a better generic term for both system types.
     
  14. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I got a lot of interference on here telling people not to purchase a Gen 3.
    They are a time bomb....
     
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  15. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Here is the latest from the Toyota Master Mechanic's channel "Car Care Nut" concerning Gen3 vs Gen4 2016 - 2022 reliability:

    https://bit.ly/2016PriusReliability
     
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  16. Kate M

    Kate M Junior Member

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    Happy ending, I'd say.
     
  17. Kate M

    Kate M Junior Member

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    Yes, it was sold by a Honda dealer. An old but reliable hybrid is priceless.
     
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