Bush's Immigration Proposals: 5/15/06

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 15 2006, 08:27 PM) [snapback]255980[/snapback]</div>

Im all for it, its about time someone did something... This has been an ongoing problem for decades.. And not just immigrants, but this will slow down the drug trafficing too.

Ithink the US Border patrol has been taxed there just aren't enough officers to cover the area much less county deputies... Becides for most people here in the USA they would rather see the National Gaurd being deployed on US soil that being deployed in Iraq.!

 

I just caught the last half of it. I too, by all means, am no Bush supporter but from what I watched I agreed with everything that he said. I do agree with having the need for a secure border, not only for immigration but also for stopping those terrorists!!! Makes you wonder if this topic has been hitting the headlines for the last month because of some threat that has come from south of the border But that has been mentioned numerous times before..... All in all, something needs to be done with the border situation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 15 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]255980[/snapback]</div>

I'm looking for a transcript of the address...but without even reading it I'll give you my impression of this address. He'll say anything to get his poll numbers north of 30 again. I'll treat this like anything else he's said in the past: with a eyedropper of trust and a dumptruck load of doubt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ May 15 2006, 05:38 PM) [snapback]255986[/snapback]</div>

Here is the text of the address.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/15/bus...text/index.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ May 15 2006, 08:38 PM) [snapback]255986[/snapback]</div>

LOL, looks like someone doesnt like MS's avatar

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jkash @ May 15 2006, 05:40 PM) [snapback]255988[/snapback]</div>

Awesome thanks! Reading...


unlike our President.


:lol:

 

Reinforcing the southern border without addressing the problem of those illegal aliens already here is simply a bandaid approach where major stitches are required.

Begin immediately enforcing the law we already have on the books.

If you're illegal, you get deported.
If you hire illegals you get major fines. Caught again go to jail.

We also need to face the fact that being born in the US from an illegal mother doesn't automatically confer citizenship.

If immigration is needed so badly, the number of work visas and quotas for legal immigration can be increased; but only for those not already in this country.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 15 2006, 08:27 PM) [snapback]255980[/snapback]</div>

Good start. More needed.

We need a National ID card. We need to protect our borders better. We can not be the worlds repository for its poor and uneducated. We must be smart about who we let in and why and how we do it.

Again, good start. Waiting for add-ons like empowering National Guard troops, smart fence, enforcing current laws on employing illegals, etc.

 

Someone has spoken?

Oops, that was just the broken record...

 

Bush has very savvy speechwriters. Bush also has a long history of failing to implement the proposals in his speeches, or of urging laws but denying the funding to implement them.

He promised big funding for AIDS research, but never delivered. He swore to capture bin Laden, but then turned the job over to the Pakistanis, who reportedly allowed him to escape, while Bush pulled the troops off the hunt for bin Laden in order to attack a country that had nothing to do with al Queda or 9/11. He passed "No Child Left Behind" but then left the funding of it to the states.

I learned in 1968 (when LBJ was the "peace candidate") that politicians' speeches mean nothing. It's their actions that count. And their actions almost never agree with their speeches.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 16 2006, 06:56 PM) [snapback]256605[/snapback]</div>

As an ex-con myself, I can say that I've met plenty of guys beind bars who are much better citizens than the clowns who hold elective office in this country.

 

Do you think that it's possible that raising this issues now is related to the election in November?

My major question is, where is the money coming from? Social Security? Education? Transportation? The Republican Congress is being put in the middle of this because they are the ones that are going to have to pony up the tax dollars to cover Bush's butt and deal with the costs.

Obviously, Bush was limited in what he could do with the Guard because of Posse Comitatus but what happends when some guardsmen get in the middle of something? Does Bush then go to Congress to get Posse Comitatus set aside which opens the door for the use of military in all domestic law enforcement or does he just ignore it because of Iraq and push forward with more military?

Now Mexico is about to file lawsuits through their Embassy because of the apparrent militarization of the U.S./Mexico border.

This is another fine mess you've got us into Ollie!! :blink:

 

I don't claim to have any answers. It's not realistic nor desirable, IMO, to send millions of undocumented workers back because of the havoc with families. For their children ARE in fact U.S. citizens and as such, are entitled to be here. I think Bush' plan for dealing with current undocumented workers is sensible, and yes, compassionate.

Not so strangely, I totally disagree with the program for bringing in "guest workers' to do the work that Americans won't do. I think the whole premise is false. It would be more accurate to talk about jobs that Americans won't do FOR THE PALTRY SUM (certainly sub-minimum wage) THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WILL WORK FOR. If these undesirable jobs paid a living wage, there would be no incentive to hire an undocumented worker. But that raises serious consequences for employers/corporations: they could not subsist without a cheaper than legal workforce.

Wait a minute -- isn't that the exact dilemma the South faced after the Civil War when their free workforce was eliminated with the abolition of slavery?

IMO, the underclass made up of documented and undocumented workers from Mexico and points south have one or two things in common with the slaves. They're forced to work for little or no money in order to feed their families and survive. Their economic well-being is totally in the hands of the employers. Oh yeah, as long as they're "guest workers" they will never be able to vote for those worrisome things such as a living minimun wage, better working conditions, and so on. What do we call it when employers are legally given a cheap workforce who have no power through the law to better their situation. Sounds a little like slavery, huh?

Peace --

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 15 2006, 08:35 PM) [snapback]255984[/snapback]</div>

ummm....right. He didn't do anything - and most likely, judging by his rep, nothing will be done.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marjflowers @ May 17 2006, 04:10 AM) [snapback]256744[/snapback]</div>

what are you smoking?

This is NOT EVEN CLOSE to slavery! Do not insult the families whose ancestors where enslaved against their will and forced to work under such adverse conditions.

Send them all home, so they can get in line for complete legal immigration like everyone else. This country may be free, but it is not a free ride. They came here on their OWN FREE WILL to work for a few dollars more without paying taxes and obtaining free medical, and the other perks of America - they came here to STEAL from what current Americans pay for. If they are going to remain here to work, they should be paying back to the system those things they are taking.

It's that bleeding heart thing that is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Send them all home.

Okay Marj - if you walked into a Target and stole an item from the shelf, you would expect to be arrested, fined, and possibly some jail time right? Well, what if, even though it is illegal, no one enforced that law. Lots of people would be doing it, right? Target would increase the price of good to pay for those losses, right? So, in a sense, I'm paying extra to cover all the goods you stole.

Now, with that said, Target once again decided to strictly enforce the shoplifting law. Now, you are pissed because of it and feel it is your legal right not to have it enforced...and even try to boycott the store.

There are so many associations but I'm sure you've heard most of them. I'm so sick of the government and media pandering to the illegal immigrants and businesses' push to keep American a free ride.

I dislike W - but his speech was a start. Now lets back it up with action.

Slavery?....you got some nerve.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(2Hybrids @ May 17 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]256756[/snapback]</div>

I think if you go back and read what marjflowers wrote, she was not comparing the situation of illegal immigrants with slavery. I believe that she was comparing the current dependence of employers on cheap labor (i.e., undocumented immigrants) with the situation the South faced after the civil war, when they no longer could rely on slave labor.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ May 17 2006, 12:53 AM) [snapback]256671[/snapback]</div>

No question about it. This is obviously a serious issue that needs to be addressed, but the fact that the administration is bringing it up now is certainly a desparate measure to take the public's attention off of Iraq, corruption, etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 12:05 AM) [snapback]256649[/snapback]</div>

And some of those clowns may have an opportunity to know what it's like to be behind bars.

 

Border security is way overdue but actions speak louder than words, per above, let's see if something is actually done. After all, it is already illegal.

For a couple of centuries the US was selective about who came in giving preferential addmission to the highly skilled that the country needed like engineers, scientists, doctors, etc. With the recent 11 to 30 million (including the anchor babies) illegals from the South were are importing poverty and crime. There over 600,000 illegals in US prisons and thousands and thousands of US citizens were the victims. 89% of the murders and rapes in LA are commited by illegals.

Efforts to secure the border will easily be paid for by the huge savings in health care, social security, education, law enforcement and the legal system system costs of not illegally importing another 11 to 30 million illegals in the next 20 years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(2Hybrids @ May 17 2006, 03:57 AM) [snapback]256756[/snapback]</div>

Undocumented workers have taxes withheld from their pay just like citizens, but unlike citizens, they cannot file for tax refunds.

They are contributing enormously to the system by working for lousy pay so you can buy cheap produce and get cheap hotel rooms when you travel, AND they are paying taxes but not getting refunds when more tax is withheld than they would be required to pay. They more than pay for any services they receive, but they are denied many of the services that citizens get.