CA Drivers - Sign Chargepoint Petition against PG&E

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by bilofsky, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Well, there is another side to it.

    The first couple of years, when my panels were new and I wasn't charging a Prius and a Volt, I was a net generator of power if measured by dollars, because I was generating in the expensive summer peak hours.

    But I was and am a net user if measured by total kWh. There's a state law that I should be paid for excess generation, but of course the utilities got that to mean excess kWh. So the first few years on PG&E, at the end of the NEMS year they owed me $50 to $100, but didn't have to pay.

    With MCE, if I run a credit they pay up, and eventually send me a check. Plus, in any month and TOU period that I'm a net generator, MCE pays me an extra 1 cent per kWh for supplying "deep green" power.

    MCE is local control, so I can go to any monthly meeting and give them input. If there's a way to make things work better or greener, they can make changes in a month or two. Even if PG&E cared about that, they'd have to go through a long PUC proceeding.

    MCE uses any profit to create green energy installations. PG&E pays it to shareholders (and executives).

    So I'm a big fan of Community Choice Aggregation. PG&E, not so much. :)
     
  2. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    That all sounds good. I don't have enough solar to ever go negative for the year so that's not a problem. And as near as I can tell the transmission charges are modest.
     
  3. rxlawdude

    rxlawdude Active Member

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    I get nervous when someone says that rates will be BASED "on existing commercial time of use rates." "Based on" can mean any markup, up to and beyond economically sensible per kWh value. (Of course, for those with a depleted Leaf battery, "value" might be had. :)) We've already seen how badly the commercial suppliers (can you hear me, Blink???) have botched pricing that not only don't encourage, but in fact discourage EV use because their charges exceed the gasoline equivalent cost.

    Yes, Michael Peevey (who left the PUC in January) was indeed a former SCE executive, currently under investigation for possible corruption related to PG&E. (Presumably, he also took actions that favored his former employer, too.)
     
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I am of mixed feeling on the idea of free charging, pay per hour and pay per kwh pricing of charging stations.

    First, I think having free charging is a good incentive for people to buy EVs and PHEVs. I have witnessed this first hand at my company where we get free charging. We went from 5 or 6 EVs and PHEVs a couple of years ago (with 3 chargers) to over 40 or 50 now. People readily share the time on the now 13 chargers and plug/unplug others to maximize use. The incremental cost per person to the company is like a cup or two of coffee per day.

    Other than at work I've charged for free in 2.5 yrs about 10-15 times elsewhere...probably not even $5 worth. I've never paid for charging...at $1 or more per hour the cost is robbery compared to my home rates or the gas equivalent rate.

    I understand that free chargers to the general public will get abused. Or just used as designed they can be accidentally abused...such as a PHEV using it when a drained EV needs to use it.

    The solution is pretty simple. We want to encourage EV/PHEV purchases so having free public charging is a good incentive and gets people's attention. But we want to minimize abuse and get lots of chargers installed. And the charger companies need to make money.
    a. if you provide free charging, limit the "free" time and charge a fee after 1 or 2 hours to get people to move the cars
    b. possibly provide X hours of free charging (at paid stations) per month. Maybe X is 5 or 10 hours. Perhaps paying something like $25/yr or more gets you more "free" time per month. But in any case these "free" times get capped at 1 or 2 hours per use so that you need to move your car and let someone else have the spot...else you pay for charging time after that.
    c. car dealers might want to provide a subscription card to "free" charging stations (again it gets you the 1 or 2 free hours and you have to pay after that). Dealers could buy these cards from the charging companies.

    Most people should still charge most of the time at home or work. But we need enough public chargers so people don't have to worry about getting stranded and have an incentive to look into EVs.

    Mike
     
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  5. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    Since I purchased my PiP back at the end of 2013, I have seen very few additional charging stations installed in my area. The majority seem to be by NRG evGo pushing their DC network. Unfortunately, I see these public utility companies installing thousands of charging stations as a necessary evil: it will increase rates, but allow for access to significantly more stations. The amount they will raise the prices is anyone's guess at this point. If reasonably priced, they should be able to sell much more electricity from drivers who switch from gas cars to EVs. If they follow the Blink new pricing model, then it will be a complete waste.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I'm seeing more & more troll petitioners that evidently come from giving an email just one time to the supposedly worthy petition. It's almost as if fictional petitions go out - just so they can phish for your email, so they can keep 'em coming.
    .
     
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I can fix that for you. Just give me your email. :)

    Mike
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when the petrol car came out, it was a better idea than the horse and buggy. when ev's are better than gassers, we won't need free charging.
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Free charging only means that the deadbeats will beat me to it when I need it most. That's why a prudent person would never depend upon free charging. Ironically I've seen more PHEV's "take advantage" of the freebie deadbeat locations than I've ever seen the ev's do. I think I know why. Because if you have secondary gas as an option that you can depend on - and the deadbeat freebie spot isn't available, you just keep going until you find another freebie spot and squat there in stead. The pure Ev slob doesn't have that option. Thus the ev's are more likely to take whatever's available .... free - expensive - or somewhere in between.
    .
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    one of the negatives of ev's that can only be overcome by time and innovation. we see ourselves as missionaries, and so we are. along with the benefits, come hardships. nothing we cannot overcome through perseverance.
     
  11. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Free, really? ......nothing is free. Man up an pay as you go.This is the best way to go, not the "welfare" free mentality way.

    DBCassidy
     
  12. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    <political rant>There's a little American concept that some folks have lost sight of. It's called the common good. Another phrase for it is "the general welfare," one of the six reasons for the Constitution as cited in the Preamble.

    I enjoy a subsidized electric rate because I was an early solar PV adopter seven years ago. Even with incentives, the investment was substantially greater and payback period longer than it is today. But to incentivize early adopters for the common good, the CPUC offered an attractive rate plus rebates.

    Similarly, we are early adopters of another clean technology that works for the common good. Local governmental agencies here in the Bay Area decided that it's good public policy to encourage us, including by providing free charging stations. The positive reinforcement of government support means a lot more to me than the few pennies of free electricity (though both are nice).

    These days, corporations are calling the tune where government is concerned. Big agriculture forces ethanol into your gas tank even though it's expensive as energy, not environmental to produce, drives up food prices and harms some engines. The food industry torpedos nutrition initiatives. And of course the coal industry is leading the thus far successful opposition to meaningful greenhouse gas control.

    But let government help individuals for the common good, and someone cries "welfare." Well, that's what the Constitution is for - to "promote the general Welfare."</political rant>
     
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  13. evfinder

    evfinder Member

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    Just a couple of things I wanted to chip in. Apparently both the EVAA and Plug-in America are recommending not to sign the petition. There take is the more chargers the better.

    Most of the chargers around here are free but come with parking chargers. The ones in Beverly Hills have 2 hours free parking then it's 5 dollars for the next hour and climbs from there. I think the ones in the Santa Monica lot give you 1.5 hours free but I don't remember what the cost is after that. Westfield's Century City charges $1 per hour for parking for the first 3 hours then I think it's $5 for the next hour. (they have three Tesla chargers and two 110V outlets for the rest of us). I have no problem with a company offering free charging to attract EV drivers. I just think that if you are going to charge there you should also be a customer and spend money with them.

    The biggest problem we have here is not finding all the chargers in use but finding them blocked by EV drivers parked but not charging, they just treat them as preferred parking. Tesla's are the worst offenders but not the only ones.
     
  14. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Free" along with "subsidies" = general welfare which means: U.S. taxpayers pockets get picked (or screwed over again) by the governments involved. No surprise there. The ethanol situation is another story for another thread.

    I fight welfare every day: I work for a living and pay for the things I need, want and desire. I do NOT desire so- called "free" handouts as they always have strings attached.

    I would never base a plugin purchase based on rebates, free charging at work. Rather I would purchase a plugin because: I like it!!!

    Thats' a novel approach.

    DBCassidy
     
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