1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Can Closed Thermostat Bog Down the Pump?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by jimolson, Dec 4, 2023.

  1. jimolson

    jimolson Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    135
    55
    0
    Location:
    Indianapolis, USA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    My brother is working on his 2013 Prius, replacing the main water pump for the second time in a month. P261B codes ("actual pump RPM doesn't match commanded RPM") in both instances. No other codes.

    The beast will run for significantly long periods before it throws the code, squelches the ICE, and limps until the traction battery empties itself.

    I told him to replace the relay that powers the water pump, which he did after the first failure, but P261B returns.

    If the thermostat is stuck shut can it bog down the pump RPMs enough to invoke P261B? Or does the closed thermostat simply divert the water flow elsewhere with no additional hydraulic load on the pump?

    We have reason to think the coolant is clean, i.e. no chunky stuff in it to stop the pump impeller. The engine was rebuilt this spring.

    Any suggestions what could be causing this?
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,879
    15,526
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    When the thermostat is closed, only the bypass coolant circuit is open, which includes the cabin heater, exhaust heat recovery exchanger, EGR cooler, and throttle-body de-icer. Those are smaller-diameter passages than the ones through the radiator when the thermostat is open, so there is probably a bit more resistance.

    However, I haven't seen any other posts linking water pump failure to a closed stat, and I'm not sure how likely a stuck stat would even be in a 2013. The one in my 2010 still seems to be doing the job.

    Maybe you could do some data logging of the coolant temperature and pump RPM?

    If the temperature rises steadily in warmup and then sort of levels off at the thermostat opening temperature, the stat is probably ok. And I would generally expect that the pump is run at moderate or low RPM when the temperature is lower than that.

    You can look in this thread for more on how the water pump is controlled.
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  3. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2021
    1,447
    790
    0
    Location:
    SacTown, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Since the engine was rebuilt, is there a possibility that someone dumped some head gasket sealer into your cooling system in the past? Now you've got occlusions/flow restrictions in certain portions of your cooling system circuit???

    Just spit-balling.....
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,879
    15,526
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I would want to begin by collecting as much information as practical about exactly what is happening.

    The P261B code should have an available freeze frame from the moment it was set. That should include how long the engine had been running, the coolant temperature, the desired RPM requested of the pump by the ECM, and the actual RPM feedback from the pump.

    That would at least shed light on some questions like whether the engine was warming up, above or below thermostat opening temperature, and whether the reported low pump RPM was just somewhat lower than the request, or it wasn't spinning at all.

    Some data logging could fill in an even more detailed picture, but even the freeze frame already saved would be a good start.
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    8,964
    1,561
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    On the pump you took out did you by chance undo and pull the impeller out of the frame of the pump assembly just to look at it just for the heck of it see if it's cracking flaking did it spin in its bore by turning the impeller by your hand freely It won't really spin it'll move and stop moving stop moving stop kind of but you won't feel any real resistance and one's where the plastic is splitting and deteriorating you'll barely be able to turn the impeller sometimes and that will give you horrendous codes of out of whack RPM for the pump well kind of obviously we've had this twice cheap fake pumps. Maybe adding to the problem