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Charging PiP battery when not plugged in

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by aomC, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. aomC

    aomC Member

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    Sorry for the question, but I searched and couldn't seem to figure this out. So, for the PiP (Just bought one from Dianne, will have a formal intro post in a few days once I add tint, etc) you have EV mode and HV mode.

    When in HV mode, while braking or coasting, you charge the traction battery. This means if you have a charge, you can keep the power bar (?) in ECO and that would allow you to run off of the traction battery. Then of course, if you push it past ECO (above half of the bar) you start the ICE.

    Why doesn't the PiP also charge the EV mode battery (I'm assuming it's the same battery as the HV mode battery, but I suppose it doesn't matter anyway), when you're braking or coasting or going downhill or does it?

    In other words, if I've got an EV range of 9.5 miles... then I go on a long downhill slope or brake for 20 minutes (exaggerated example here) can I expect that EV Range to go up at all or not? Will the EV range only go up when plugged in and otherwise coasting, braking will only charge the HV mode battery?
     
    #1 aomC, Apr 2, 2014
  2. Pasaman

    Pasaman Active Member

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    My EV miles go up when coasting down a big hill. Not beyond capacity though. Meaning if I started with 17 miles it won't go beyond 17 when I go downhill.
     
    #2 Pasaman, Apr 2, 2014
  3. aomC

    aomC Member

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    OK, that's good to know. Maybe I just didn't notice that since I wasn't doing any hill driving (only have 80 miles on the car, haha).

    So it does have the ability to charge the EV mode battery, when coasting, etc.

    Second question: So... you know how sometimes the ICE is running (let's say you're in HV mode) and when you don't need the power, it will apply some of it back to the traction battery? Is that also going to help extend your EV range? Like sometimes you're on the freeway, flat, and you can see that the ICE is charging the traction battery.

    I was trying to also figure out why Toyota didn't allow the ICE to charge the EV battery (like the volt), doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult since it's already pretty much doing it sometimes. I assume they figure that the gas spend to charge the EV mode battery would not compensate of the dynamic losses going from ICE to EV battery to electric motor (vs. ICE to front wheels), but it would have been a nice option to have.
     
    #3 aomC, Apr 2, 2014
  4. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    The ICE will charge the battery under certain conditions - primarily to replace the charge it borrows as it warms up the ICE, and, if you are idling for a long time with a low battery it will cycle the ICE to charge the battery, shut off, run down the battery, repeat. There may be other scenarios as well, but you are right, in general it is not efficient to do so, so it doesn't.
     
    #4 zhenya, Apr 2, 2014
  5. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    You are overthinking this.

    Aside from the 12 V accessory battery, there is only ONE HV/EV/TRACTION battery.

    It does charge by regen but not much compared to it's total capacity.

    And you are right that using the engine to charge the battery is relatively INefficient under most circumstances; thus it doesn't try to do that much.
     
    #5 Easy Rider, Apr 2, 2014
  6. rogerv

    rogerv Senior Member

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    See if you can find the screen labeled "Energy Monitor" by repeatedly pressing the "Disp" button on the right side of the steering wheel. That will show when the battery is being charged and from what source, as well as what is driving the wheels at any given time. You also gain from braking, etc. The computer manages it all very efficiently.
     
    #6 rogerv, Apr 2, 2014
  7. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    It depends on how big the "hill" is :) Donner Summit SOC 30% (nearly the minimum it will go), Sacramento Valley (Loomis), SOC 85% (the maximum it will accept). Drive the rest of the way home on EV (12 miles).
     
    #7 CaliforniaBear, Apr 2, 2014
  8. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    And the computer just DOES it; it doesn't think it has to know WHY !!! :ROFLMAO:
     
    #8 Easy Rider, Apr 2, 2014
  9. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Yes. The most I have seen the battery recharge on a downhill is about 1 mile of charge per 1.5 miles of fairly steep downhill, gently riding the brakes most of the time, going about 30 mph. You don't get a lot of regen with your foot off the brake.

    Yes, the ICE will recharge the battery a bit, but mostly when the ICE is cold and must be on to warmup. After the warmup the car won't intentionally run the ICE just to recharge the battery. You might see 0.5 to 1.0 miles added depending on how cold it is, how fast you are going, energy demand for the wheels, etc.

    Mike
     
    #9 3PriusMike, Apr 2, 2014
  10. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    #10 retired4999, Apr 2, 2014
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    lot's of FUN reading.:p
     
    #11 bisco, Apr 2, 2014
  12. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Yeah, yeah, OK!:whistle:
     
    #12 retired4999, Apr 2, 2014
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  13. aomC

    aomC Member

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    OK, figured it out today. So yes the EV range when you're in HV mode can go up/down depending on use. Initially, it didn't seem like the EV range was changing at all, so I thought the traction battery was separate from some kind of EV battery (or EV Reserve) and only the Traction battery would get charged, leaving a depleted EV battery, always depleted, unless you plugged in. Indeed, they are the same and indeed you CAN increase your EV range by proper driving techniques. Whew, that's a relief!

    I think I was a getting a bit sidetracked with the DRCC and other gadgets I got, plus the 50 miles of driving wasn't really enough. Also, the menus are so different from my PriusC that that was leading to some confusion (the PriusC makes much more sense and it is better laid out). But after spending one trip focusing only on it, it works as I expected.

    EDIT: I've had an 08 Touring and a 12 PC4, and not seeing the EV range go up or down was a bit disconcerting since that's what I expected it to do. Luckily, it was just a confluence of very short distances and the fog/confusion of a new toy.

    Regarding the FAQ thread, hahahaha, after 11 pages, 216 posts and multiple digressions... that's no longer a FAQ!

    Here's an FAQ:

    Pertinent Question 1?
    Succinct Answer 1.

    Pertinent Question 2?
    Succinct Answer 2.

    ...

    Any takers feel like reformatting it? :)
     
    #13 aomC, Apr 3, 2014
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. every thread here gets fouled up. it's like trying not to scratch an itch!:p
     
    #14 bisco, Apr 3, 2014
    rxlawdude and aomC like this.
  15. Greg Popove

    Greg Popove New Member

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    I've only had my PIP a few days, but I did try it in EV mode on a hill. I can't swear to it, but it seems like the "distance to go on EV" number stops counting down for a bit after you've descended a hill, apparently using the energy you accumulated from coming down the hill.

    Still waiting for my operators manual, but I'm learning a few things online.

    I was initially disappointed that I couldn't use EV mode unless I plugged it in, but it makes perfect sense. There's no point in using EV mode when the energy came from burning gasoline; as that would be very inefficient.
     
    #15 Greg Popove, Apr 4, 2014
  16. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    That's not true. With a drained battery use gas and drive up a hill (at least a few miles). Turn around and descend the hill and you will see your EV miles range increase. Switch the mode to EV when you like. So you will use no gas going down (coasting and braking) and at the bottom of the hill you will have a few miles of EV available. Of course, this is NOT an efficient way to charge the battery at all...but if you needed to make such a trip, the capability is there.

    FYI, the kwh consumed on the driving ratio screen will not increment your kwh when doing this. Somehow it tracks actual charging from external to the car and attempts to account properly.

    Mike
     
    #16 3PriusMike, Apr 8, 2014
  17. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I have to hand it to Toyota, that they designed the PIP well. I was annoyed at first that the ICE didn't top up the EV battery the way it does the battery in a conventional vehicle, but now I see that it makes perfect sense. It would be terribly inefficient to charge the EV battery by burning gasoline, and then run the vehicle on that electricity. That would amount to something like double the running cost of gasoline alone.

    Instead, the computer roughly keeps track of the electricity regenerated, and from being plugged in, and registers it as available for EV or EV/ECO mode. Very smart.
     
    #17 GregP507, Apr 9, 2014
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  18. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Technically, Toyota owns a 30% share of the company that developed the system.
     
    #18 GregP507, Apr 10, 2014
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