1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured Cheep Gas, Less than electric Power?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by hill, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,855
    8,158
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Hard to believe - but this site says it's so - regardless of your state.
    Driving on Electricity Is Cheaper Than Gas in All 50 States | Plugless Power

    They do concede a bit for "high efficiency" cars - but don't specifically referred to the Prius
    .
     
  2. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,978
    3,213
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Now that NJ is raising the fuel tax 23 cents, the difference will be looking better.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    A big part is fuel taxes both State and Federal but it also turns out the 2016 Prius, Level 2 ECO without fuel taxes is within 80-90% of the cost per mile as our BMW i3-REx. In effect, the high thermodynamic efficiency of the Prius engine and optimized control laws makes up for the transmission losses of the local grid and burning cheap coal.

    Now I've verified Prius driving techniques also work with the BMW i3-REx. So if I want, I could easily reduce my electrical costs 10-15% by driving it like a Prius (or Prius Prime.) But the 'free' electricity, about 1/3d of my kWhr, totally buggers efficient driving. The only frontier remaining is highway driving.

    Later,
    Bob Wilson
     
    kgall and RCO like this.
  4. horent135

    horent135 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    44
    12
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    They need to do a comparison cost with public chargers vs gas. Public chargers in CA cost around 50-60 cent per kWh which might cost more than gas
     
    kgall, RCO and bwilson4web like this.
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Exactly! You have to use local rates and availability AND remember we are not uniform within our local EV range.

    Bob Wilson
     
    RCO likes this.
  6. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    1,243
    1,044
    1
    Location:
    Keystone State
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    States continually add taxes onto gas prices to fund road maintenance. I can see if fuel becomes less consumed, states will find somewhere else to get their money.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,043
    11,511
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    That actually got through?
     
  8. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,978
    3,213
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Just waiting for Christie to sign it and he's going to.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,392
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    unfortunately, the map is wrong. but hey, if deliberately misleading people can get them into ev's, it's all good, right?
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,235
    4,231
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    No, it isn't. There are so many good reasons to drive electric I see no reason for "deliberately misleading people".
    However, saying the map is wrong without saying why can also be misleading.
    Care to elaborate?
     
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,321
    3,590
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    nuff said
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,855
    8,158
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    yes - Cali public charging is all over the map.
    Some are free use ... some costs are fixed per kWh - some are fixed use per hour. Per hour costs are ripoff using a 3kw charger, but they can be a bargain if your charger is running 6 or 10kW's if the charger runs at the more powerfull levels.

    The article mentions residential "tier3" power can easily top 40ยข /kwh - but fails to elaborate on the convoluted high power 400v DC charging schemes. Again, you can find everything from free ones all the way up to nearly $4/kwh.

    Not only is that a mixed bag, gas costs can run from $2 to $4 gallon. That's gotta make pulling averages a tough row to hoe as the farmer would say.
    .
     
    #12 hill, Oct 8, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
    RCO and bwilson4web like this.
  13. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    3,709
    5,183
    0
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    All of UK is like that.... only worse!
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,043
    11,511
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    How is it wrong?
    It is showing the cash savings of driving an average electric car to an average ICE car(hint: not a Prius).
    Mass. has the lowest savings, and it is in the articles 10 worse list. The 19.1 cents per kWh quoted on the table is lower than what you pay, but it is a state average.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,392
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    headline says it all, not it isn't. most people aren't going to dive into the minute to find out it isn't, what kind of gas car qualifies or doesn't qualify for their statement, or what kind of ev would compare in comfort features and price to their current car, or cars they are looking at.
    that's deliberately misleading.
     
  16. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,235
    4,231
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't think I've ever read any article in which all the details are laid out in the title.
    However, would "Driving on electricity, in the average electric vehicle, is cheaper than driving the average gas vehicle, for the average cost of electricity in all 50 states" be better?
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,693
    49,392
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    it could just as easily, 'driving on gas is cheaper than electricity in all 50 states'.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,043
    11,511
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Which many already believe because of "EV cost more than gas cars in fuel" studies that compare a Leaf to a Prius
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,372
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    One might do their own model using national and regional data from: U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    One could also use www.fueleconomy.gov which has a savings per vehicle. Put your vehicle in as well as alternates that you might consider buying:
    [​IMG]
    (NOTE: the image rotation is in the server. Open in a separate window to see the correct orientation.)

    I won't be doing a national model because I've already measured it locally:
    • $0.25 / 10 miles - BMW i3 electric, Huntsville AL $0.10/kWh
    • $0.37 / 10 miles - Prius gas, Huntsville AL $1.80/gal (Regular)
    • $0.60 / 10 miles - BMW i3 gas, Huntsville AL $2.00/gal (Plus)
    Bob Wilson
     
    #19 bwilson4web, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    RCO likes this.
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,235
    4,231
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    No, that would be even less accurate.
    It would be true in some extreme cases, but not the majority.

    All the information in an article is not available in the title.
    Reading the body of the article gives a good layout of the spread of costs.