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Chevy fuel economy

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bulldog, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. bulldog

    bulldog Member

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    Got tired of all the GM trolls patrolling here, so take this and smoke it.

    Lets debunk another piece of GM BS marketing, might as well while I’m at it.

    GM’s claim on their website.
    “Chevy has sold more cars with an EPA estimated 30 highway MPG or better than Honda, Nissan, Ford or Chrysler.†Note it says Chevy not GM.

    Caveat they list just below
    “These are the top fuel economy numbers for these Chevy brands. Chevy also offers many other models with different engines and transmissions that still deliver surprising fuel economy.â€

    This was listed for CYTD Oct 06, but lets see if holds true for Jan 07 as well.


    They then list the following models that gets 30MPG highway (they have none that get 40MPG, from what I could see)
    - Aveo
    - Cobalt
    - HHR
    - Impala
    - Malibu
    - Monte Carlo

    Yet for the following models they are borderline or do not make it. (fueleconomy.gov)
    - Cobalt 2L Manual just gets 30 MPG highway
    - Impala the 3.9l and 5.3l models get 29 and 27 respectively
    - Malibu 3.9L gets 26
    - Malibu Maxx 3.5l gets 30MPG and the 3.9l gets 24MPG
    - Monte Carlo 5.3L gets 27MPG

    I will exclude the Corvette (low volume sport car),

    Thus a lot of caveats when they say 30MPG (highway MPG only, some models excluded, etc, etc). So they make themselves sound like a fuel efficient company.

    Lets look at the sale figures for Jan 2007
    Aveo 3789
    Cobalt 13023
    Impala 25275
    Malibu 9209
    Monte Carlo 1639

    Total 52935

    Unfortunately they don’t supply a more detailed model breakdown to allow exclusion of actual models not making 30 MPG highway. Not sure on the % of the total # sold above.

    Now lets look at the Toyota cars. We have: (I’m excluding Scion as it is marketed as a different brand, although under Toyota dealerships)
    Avalon
    Camry Hybrid
    Camry Solara
    Camry
    Corolla
    Matrix
    Prius
    Yaris

    Of these only the Solara V6 and Solara convertible gets lower than 30 MPG (29 MPG actually). All the other cars sold in the US gets more than 30 MPG highway and every configuration and model, no exclusions!!!

    Actually the following ones get more than 40MPG:
    Corolla manual 41MPG
    Prius (obviously) 51MPG
    Yaris manual 40MPG

    The Camry hybrid just misses the 40MPG highway mark with 38, but get 40 in the city and 39 combined.

    Now lets look at the sales figures of the Toyota cars:
    Yaris 5870
    Corolla 25519
    Camry 31461 (Solara V6s not broken out, but hybrids outsells them by far)
    Avalon 6529
    Prius 8299
    Matrix not listed probably lumped with Corolla.

    Total 77678


    So who sells the most fuel efficient cars in the US ?? GM or Toyota?

    So instead of talking about it GM should do something about it. And instead of hounding us, their loyal fans should hound GM to change the picture.

    Sorry, but I’m analytical.
     
    #1 bulldog, Feb 13, 2007
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Feb 13 2007, 02:30 AM) [snapback]389406[/snapback]</div>
    You're analytical? You state"GM’s claim on their website.
    “Chevy has sold more cars with an EPA estimated 30 highway MPG or better than Honda, Nissan, Ford or Chrysler.†And then you attempt to disapprove GM's claim by showing the mpg of Toyota's? Great analytical work!

    What is your point here. I believe that the marketing actually claims that 9 out of 10 Chevy cars sold gets and epa 30 mpg highway or better. I am glad it made an impression with you. Must be working to get under your skin so much. I think I am the only GM troll I have seen on here lately other than the 8th grader who was giving you all an economic lesson yesterday. :lol:
     
    #2 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  3. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]389430[/snapback]</div>
    I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but this one's too easy.

    OK, January figures for Honda Accord - 25,714 (29 MPG, 4 cyl. manual)
    January figures for Honda Civic - 18,378 (34 mpg, 4 cyl. automatic)

    Chevy isn't even in the top 10 for anything close to 30 MPG.
     
    #3 Stev0, Feb 13, 2007
  4. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Feb 13 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]389508[/snapback]</div>
    You missed the Impala, which does get over 30MPG highway.
     
    #4 Jonnycat26, Feb 13, 2007
  5. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    Chevy has sold more cars with an EPA estimated 30 highway MPG or better than Honda...

    I find this a little hard to believe. I sure see a bunch of Civics and Accords around.
     
    #5 Beryl Octet, Feb 13, 2007
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 13 2007, 11:22 AM) [snapback]389521[/snapback]</div>
    Chevy sells more cars than Honda, and almost everything Chevy sells gets 30 mpg highway or better os it is very easy math. Beryl you have just reinforced the GM perception problem. Interesting isn't it. ;)
     
    #6 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  7. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Feb 13 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]389511[/snapback]</div>
    I was looking at the combined MPG.
     
    #7 Stev0, Feb 13, 2007
  8. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    Of course one should factor in the fact that the chevy compact & sub-compact models listed are cheaper than the Hondas & Toyotas..... Toyota isn't first time buyer freindly...
    Most 1st time buyers are looking at cost & payments before mileage.
     
    #8 hycamguy07, Feb 13, 2007
  9. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Feb 13 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]389536[/snapback]</div>
    Well, hell, if you're doing that, drop the Camry off the list too.

    And, FWIW, Chevrolet/GM has always made the claim about highway mileage... never combined mileage.
     
    #9 Jonnycat26, Feb 13, 2007
  10. bulldog

    bulldog Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 09:27 AM) [snapback]389524[/snapback]</div>
    GM sold 55k cars in January (which includes 4% Corvettes and an unknown number of other cars than dont get 30 MPG), while they sold 93K trucks during the same time (of which only one specific configuration gets 30MPG, the rest is the typical 20MPG or lower highway , forget combined mileage).

    Hmmmmm. And of the cars they sell do theyhave the actual numbers broken out by model so you can actually see the real number of cars that do get 30MPG highway. Toyota does not have the problem as basically all their cars in all configurations get 30MPG or better highway. Honda is the same with only specific configuration not achieving 30MPG higway.

    Toyota sold 67k trucks in January, still less than the cars they sell. Not good, but the ratio is a lot better than Chevy's.

    Oh and I'm glad you think an 8th Grader taught anybody an economic lesson. A he/she is not in 8th grade; B that person only showed their bias and could not back anything up with fact, just opinion. Same as you.

    My point of the thread is that GM is trying to play marketing games with wording instead of fixing the problem. The product they sell are not economical,nor reliable and that is why they are loosing market share rapidly. If they devoted more time of fixing these issues and less on palying marketing games, they would be able to stay on top.
     
    #10 bulldog, Feb 13, 2007
  11. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Feb 13 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]389731[/snapback]</div>
    First of all you forget about all those gas-guzzling Lexus models toyota sells in your figures. Secondly which manufacturer's ratio of cars/trucks is becoming more truck oriented each month?
     
    #11 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  12. bulldog

    bulldog Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]389737[/snapback]</div>
    Well if you read the references I site, you will see that Lexus is not included in the numbers listed.

    The numbers are for Chevy brand and Toyota brand, not Scion, Lexus, Buick, etc. If you include other corporate brands GM only looks worse.

    WHy don't you list the figures andsite the reference of the ratios on a month by month basis? FUnny how you reverse your logic when confronted with fact. This is exactly why GM is in trouble, your type of logic. Look at the facts and figure out what they mean and how to address the problem. DOn't just try to twist and turn it to suite you. Sweep a problem under the carpet and it comes back to bite you later as a much larger problem. I still see that thinking at GM instead of dealing with the problem. Why don't you spend your time with GM to get them to bring out products consumers will buy, that address the consumers need, etc?
     
    #12 bulldog, Feb 13, 2007
  13. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    GM advertising is usually truthful, if irrelevant. Mostly an exercise for my kids in picking up the spin.

    Only highway mpg is classic
    Specifying a useless time interval, or subset of vehicles is common. Is GM counting back to the 1970's for this ad, by any chance ?

    Remember the 'like a rock' commercials ? If memory serves me, they touted more vehicles on the road than any other brand at 10 years. Useless statistic, of course, because they "forgot" to normalize the denominator of how many cars sold.

    If and when GM *ever* advertises without spin, I will know they actually have a quality product. Obviously not today.

    Addendum: Yep .. here is the small print:
    "Based on EPA estimates and R.L. Polk & Co. CYTD October 2006 Passenger Car Total Registrations in the U.S."

    Notice -- this does not have squat to do with CURRENT OFFERINGS of GM and their competitors. Typical GM BS.
     
    #13 EricGo, Feb 13, 2007
  14. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Feb 13 2007, 04:07 PM) [snapback]389762[/snapback]</div>
    Tell me how GM "spins" in their advertising messages realative to Toyota's advertising messages?

    You will see toyota struggle over the next few years. Their pockets and the pockets of their dealers are overflowing, their quality has slipped dramatically(the next JD power rankings will shed some light on that), they are entering a market which will be dramatically tougher to conquer(full-size trucks), they are invloved in a very dangerous enterprise for them strategically(NASCAR).
     
    #14 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  15. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    Sorry laddie, I'm not playing that game today. If you find Toyota or Honda spin, trot it out. I'd be particularly interested in spin related to reliability, pollution, or fuel economy.

    For fun, I averaged the CITY mpg of the six cars GM touts as fuel efficient (note: not models, since many of the configurations of each model are ...errr... excluded).

    Drum roll .... .... ... 23.
    That of course includes the Daewoo LOL.

    BTW, check out the FUEL SOLUTIONS from the main menu at Chevy, and consider the EV !!
    Oh wait ... it's just vapor.
    Well, then how about FUEL CELL CARS ??
    Oh.. more vapor.
     
    #15 EricGo, Feb 13, 2007
  16. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Feb 13 2007, 04:33 PM) [snapback]389785[/snapback]</div>
    All of the Tundra commercials inferring their superior gas-mileage. What toyota hopes will become the mainstream Tundra gets two mpg less than the comparable Chevy Silverado.
     
    #16 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  17. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    My TV viewing is a couple of hours of year, and I tune out truck commercials.

    Help me out with specifics.
     
    #17 EricGo, Feb 13, 2007
  18. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Feb 13 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]389791[/snapback]</div>
    I will try to find it online.

    This is not the tundra ad but this ad is very misleading. Toyota is American, they are creating jobs.

    http://sjc-static15.sjc.youtube.com/vi/exsavkpwYU0/2.jpg
     
    #18 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
  19. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    Last bit of time wasting --

    I looked up the mpg of the Toyota Tacoma DoubleCab Prerunner: 23/28; that is; a smidgen better than the average of the hand-picked Chevy group.

    And you wonder why GM is 'perceived' as pathetic.
     
    #19 EricGo, Feb 13, 2007
  20. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Feb 13 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]389802[/snapback]</div>
    Look up the all-new Tundra. that is toyota's full-size pickup not a Tacoma.

    Tundra Silverado

    14 mpg city 16 mpg city
    18 mpg highway 20 mpg highway

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
     
    #20 malorn, Feb 13, 2007
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