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Christian activists disrupt Hindu prayer in US Senate

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by IsrAmeriPrius, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    Brought to you by the folks who want more religion in public life. Obviously, only if it is their brand of religion. :rolleyes:

    Excerpts:

     
  2. Swanny1172

    Swanny1172 New Member

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    This country was founded by folks that were fleeing religious intolerance. Too bad that it seems like religious intolerance is going to be what tears it apart.
     
  3. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jul 13 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]478490[/snapback]</div>
    Of course, that the Senate officially endorses prayer by conducting the exercise at all is in direct conflict with the spirit of the 1st amendment.

    Whether Hindu, Bhuddist, Muslim, Jewish, Christian or appeal to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, a moment's observation would reveal that all such so-called prayers have zero effect at producing what they all ask for: wisdom, clarity, integrity and good faith in the legislative process, none of which has been spotted in the chambers of congress for at least the last two centuries. So even if one or several of the petitioned gods did actually exist, they ain't listening. They most certainly neither inspire nor frighten the senators, who mouth their prayers as empty incantations while their minds are elsewhere occupied plotting their next chicanery.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  4. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    You can see video of the disruption at this link.

    The group that disrupted it gave a press release.

    Amazing how people are so in favor of bringing God into the government and the public arena - so long as it is THEIR god. As soon as anyone else's god is brought up, it becomes problematic.

    They only made their own cause look terrible. What rude and boorish behavior to interrupt a prayer.
     
  5. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Jul 14 2007, 04:19 AM) [snapback]478577[/snapback]</div>
    Typical religionists intolerance. Like junior, it's 'my way or the hiway". However MY way is to IMAGINE no religion...
     
  6. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    Hmmmmm, the French tried to imagine no religion in 1789-1799 and look what it got them. Likewise the Russian’s, Chinese and North Koreans are or where doing the same until just recently, so there are several choices to pick from. Pity none of you will take advantage of this wonderful lifestyle change and travel opportunity. :p While the idea of protesting is quite abhorrent to the offended members on this board I applaud the person or persons that stand and deliver an unpopular message in a peaceful manner, it’s not mine and I don’t endorse it but nevertheless they delivered it. It takes courage to do this especially when it personally costs you monetarily and at least temporarily your freedom. Funny I never heard these howls of protest when liberal students shouted down various speakers on college campuses this last year that held different viewpoints. It never ceases to amaze me the intolerance exhibited by the self proclaimed “tolerantâ€!

    Peace, Understanding and Goodwill to all . . .

    Wildkow
     
  7. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    You're confusing "no state-sponsored religion" with "only MY religion", which is what the fundies want. ANY fundies, be they Muslim, Christian, or even Atheist.
     
  8. wbuttler

    wbuttler New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jul 13 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]478490[/snapback]</div>
    I wholeheartedly agree
    this type of person is dangerous
    zero difference between them and an Islamic fundamentalist
    no wonder the world hates us


    Froley
     
  9. kdailey356

    kdailey356 New Member

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    they would disrupt...
     
  10. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    So would you have a problem with someone delivering a similar message for another religion in a peaceful manner at the local Christian church?

    There are many people worldwide who truly believe their religion is the RIGHT way - and the ONLY way. There are Jews and Muslims who don't believe in eating pork, yet I haven't seen them protesting the local BBQ joints by disrupting their daily business. I haven't seen the Hindus yelling outside the local McDonald's.

    Would it be OK if the next time a Christian minister stands up to lead the Senate prayer if a Wiccan stood up and shouted about it being an abomination and a false god? Or would that just be too much, because everyone knows the Wiccans are wrong?

    Respect is a great thing. There was no respect shown by these protesters. They do more to turn people off the cause of Christ than they do to turn people to their beliefs.
     
  11. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    oh, my head hurts...
     
  12. formerVWdriver

    formerVWdriver New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Froley @ Jul 14 2007, 03:54 PM) [snapback]478722[/snapback]</div>
    For the record, they were wrong. WRONG.
    However, please note that they didn't blow anybody up.
     
  13. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jul 14 2007, 09:34 AM) [snapback]478669[/snapback]</div>
    Civil disobedience is the bedrock of true governance of the people by the people, and had a group of protesters given voice in the Senate chamber opposing passage of an odious piece of legislation, I'm right there with you championing their freedom of expression.

    But when a group tries to suppress free expression, such as the debate that would have preceded passage of legislation, by disrupting such expression, then I'm opposed to it, in any forum, under any circumstances. If a Goebbels or a Cheney or a neo-Nazi wants to speak, by all means allow them their expression unhindered, no matter how repugnant some perceive what's being said.

    The protesters in this case have every right to express their disagreement, even in the Senate chamber, but NOT on top of whomever on the Senate floor is trying to speak. Let each man have his say first, THEN give vent to your dissent.

    I think that's what helps keep debate lively and more or less constructive (with exceptions) in these chatboards - anyone that wants to have a say can have that say unhindered and uninterrupted. It'd be intolerable chaos if we could INTERRUPT each other somehow, or worse, pre-emptively block portions of others' posts from making the board!

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  14. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Jul 14 2007, 03:09 PM) [snapback]478728[/snapback]</div>
    Good question. Doubt it will answered honestly though. I'll bet that those who disrupted the hindu minister couldn't tell the difference between hindu or muslim.

    That being said, all religions are outdated modes of thinking. They may have served a purpose before the tsunami of scientific thinking and knowledge. But religion now only serves to divide people and it gives people false and superstitious beliefs that does nothing to further the good of humanity.
     
  15. boulder_bum

    boulder_bum Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Jul 13 2007, 10:15 PM) [snapback]478494[/snapback]</div>
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jul 13 2007, 10:38 PM) [snapback]478504[/snapback]</div>
    The spirit of the first amendment was that the government wouldn't interfere in church matters, not the other way around. They wanted freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion as so many seem to want instead. Christianity was deeply embedded into the beliefs and policy of many of our founding fathers.

    Granted some of the founding fathers were atheists/deists, but you have people like George Washington saying "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible" and Benjamin Rush saying, "I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible".

    Indeed the first legislative action of the Continental Congress was to open the first session in prayer (though they had trouble deciding which Christian minister to choose) and the Declaration of Independance mentions that we are "endowed by our Creator (capital C) with certain unalienable rights".

    Clearly these guys didn't want any mention of God taken away from all government institutions, rather they wanted to make sure religious expression was never suppressed (even in the public space).

    That said, I agree with other posters that interrupting the Hindu prayer was a bit rude, though I think it's wrong to dismiss prayer in Congress altogether, and I strongly encourage the political activism of the American citizenry. If we had more people passionate about government policy, we'd be a lot better off.
     
  16. FiftyOneMPG

    FiftyOneMPG New Member

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    Maybe they can line up a buffet of all kinds of religions that America was not founded on while the democrats have the gavel. Put in a wiccan for the month of August to channel satan into the chamber.

    I'm a little surprised by this hindu thing, I would have expected they'd stop the prayers all together when they got control, but that would just be liberal. To do this, it was more of a vindictive power play. Go Go Go demo's... This kind of thing will stick in the jaw of the voters and hopefully by 2008, the demo's will have completely alienated the voters.
     
  17. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    So freedom OF religion is fine so far as it's a good Christian prayer.

    But when it's a nice Hindu guy doing a nice Hindu prayer, we need freedom FROM religion.
     
  18. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FiftyOneMPG @ Jul 14 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]478769[/snapback]</div>
    Well, how ignorant can you get?

    First...not all "liberals" are athiests. There are devout Catholic "liberals". There are God-fearing "liberals". And not all Democrats are "liberals". Plenty of Democrats attend the church of their choice and are strong in their faith.

    Second...Wiccans don't worship Satan. They don't believe in Satan. Wiccans' beliefs share the medical creed of "First, do no harm". They believe anything wrong they do comes back to them threefold. So you don't want to intentionally do anything bad because something bad will happen to you that's three times as bad. Sorta like Karma.

    Satan is a product of Christianity. Wiccans don't believe in hell or Satan or angels or heaven or God. It is a nature-based pagan religion. I think if it as an European equivalent to the religions of Native Americans. It is nature-based. It is about balance and harmony.

    "Wiccan morality is largely based on the (often misunderstood) Wiccan Rede: An it harm none, do what ye will. This is usually interpreted as a declaration of the freedom to act, along with the necessity of taking responsibility for what follows from one's actions.[15] Another element of Wiccan Morality comes from the Law of Threefold Return, which is understood to mean that whatever one does to another person or thing (benevolent or otherwise) returns with triple force.[16]"

    Wikipedia with Citations.
     
  19. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    But Godiva, it doesn't matter what the Wiccans say they believe! If the Christians say that Wiccans are Satanists...they are.

    It doesn't matter if you are Jewish and don't really drink newborn Christian's blood for Passover. If the Christians say you do...you do.

    It never ceases to amaze me when followers of one religion make statements about another religion and what "those people" believe - as if they were somehow more expert on non-Christian religions than the heathens themselves!

    I don't profess to know more about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, LDS, Scientology or FSM than those who actually practice those religions. But I've sure heard from a lot of Christian "experts" who will tell you EXACTLY what those religions believe. And they'll usually follow it up with a great explanation of why those religions are wrong.
     
  20. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FiftyOneMPG @ Jul 14 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]478769[/snapback]</div>
    Wow. What an ignorant statement.

    Senate sessions have opened with prayer invocations since the Senate was first established in 1789. The Democratic Party controlled congress and the Senate during many of those years, including long stretches when it had a two thirds majority. There was never an attempt to do away with that tradition.

    I suggest that you brush up on your history before you embarrass yourself again.