Cliff notes needed

The excellent thread Tony started on Prius Myths and their Rebuttals is a good place to start.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cruzn @ Sep 27 2007, 08:12 AM) [snapback]518399[/snapback]</div>

Welcome to Priuschat. Let me say first that, in reality, you will get WAY more than 16 more mpg IMHO. There are no high run costs or concerns - if anything less, since the car's Synergy Drive is much simpler mechanically than a regular transmission. The car will hold it's value much better as people can attest when comparing the used vs new price. We currently have a '03 Classic and a '07 Gen II with basically oil changes and tire rotations as the only expenses (if you don't count the close encounter with a brick wall). My best tank so far has been 60.0 mpg, and am currently on a 56.3 mpg tank. I say don't wait for the '09 - every day you wait you are paying for gas you don't need to buy. Do take the time, though, to read through some of the posts. There is still a lot of incorrect information circulating too. Do a search of the site for what you need to know, and I'm sure before the day is over you will get plenty of responses. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

Welcome to PC!

Deciding whether a Prius is a better investment than a Yaris begins with a couple of somewhat flawed premises: 1) they are comparable vehicles, and 2) buying a car is an investment.

Of the two, total ownership costs would almost certainly be lower for the Yaris. But it's apples-to-oranges. When you consider the complete package -- size, functionality, performance, features, and reliability -- there really is nothing to compare the Prius to. Among Toyota models, Matrix (with its hatchback) probably comes the closest.

A car is not an investment. "Investment" implies an expectation (or at least a hope) of eventually recovering the cost and more. But I bet you know that.

 

"Saving planet earth aside..."

Well, if we have to exclude the remarkably low emissions of the Prius and focus on investment, buy the Yaris.

But if you want to help save planet earth and encourage Toyota and competitors to build greener cars, buy the Prius.

For many people, including most of this community, it's worth the few thousand bucks. And the bonus is $25 fillups every 450 miles, give or take, for a typical owner.

 

The Yaris has fuel cutoff during deceleration (DFCO). I remember reading a thread that tells how to use it in a Yaris on the forums at www.cleanmpg.com.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cruzn @ Sep 27 2007, 07:12 AM) [snapback]518399[/snapback]</div>

You haven't offered enough information to answer this question.

A few of the things that are missing:

How long do you intend to keep the car?
How many miles do you expect to drive per year?
How much of that driving will be rural, urban, hwy, city, open road, stop and go, hills/mountains?
What are the typical seasonal temperatures where you'll be driving?
Do you typically keep up with all the manufacturer recommended maintenance?
Do you do all, some, or none of the maintenance yourself?
What are your local insurance costs on each car?
What are gas prices in your area currently?
How much do you expect gas prices to change during the time you own the car?
Will you trade it in, sell it privately, or send it to the junk yard when you're done?
Do any of the features of either of the cars carry any intrinsic value for you beyond the basic ability of the car to get you from one destination to another? (For example, is it worth a few dollars to have access to automatic A/C controls? How about a second 12V outlet? etc.)
What extreme conditions will you regularly drive in? (Icy? Snowy? Dirt roads? Gravel Roads? etc.)

I'm sure there is other information that is necessary to answer your question as to whether the Prius is a better "investment", but this would be a good start.

The "Cliff Notes" on the Prius is that it is a well conceived, well designed, well built, reliable, fun to drive, fuel efficient, packed with features, source for transportation available at a reasonable cost. Beyond that I'd need to know what information you are looking for to narrow down the huge amount of information about the car to just that subset that interests you.

Any of the automotive website (cars.com?) have a list of features, and options. What more are you looking for?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cruzn @ Sep 27 2007, 07:12 AM) [snapback]518399[/snapback]</div>

First, congratulations on losing the Titan!

I'm hoping you pose this question on a site that has Yaris drivers as well. Obviously the clear majority of us are really happy with our purchase, so we'll recommend the Prius to anybody asking.

If your question is simply how can you lose as little money as possible, first you buy a used car. If you still want a new car however, the Yaris will probably be overall cheaper, as apparently most people get upper 30's to mid 40's mpg, and most Prius drivers get upper 40's, but upper 50's is quite possible with some attention to driving conditions (and most people on PriusChat do pay attention). As mentioned, the actual mileage in a Prius depends quite a bit on your climate (I get low 50's in the summer, low 40's in the winter, 49.9 lifetime average), commute length (mine is short, otherwise you could add 3-5mpg to my numbers), and driving conditions - stop & go, high-speed, lead-foot etc.

Keep in mind the Yaris will require brake pads and some other maintenance items the Prius is easy on, due to the engine being off so much and regenerative braking. It also depends on how long you expect to keep the car. I expect gas prices to double in the next 5 years. Regardless of your views on peak oil, that's been the trend since 2002 (I track that along with my mpg at each fill-up).

 

Hi Cruzn,

Danny Hamilton is asking all the right questions you need to provide answers for us to help you.

The main difference between the Prius and Yaris economy is going to be determined by trip length and the amount of braking, and the type of braking in your daily commute, and average speed.

Trip length beyond 5 miles in the warm Jax weather is probably needed for good Prius return on investment. This give the Prius time to warm up and get into its efficient mode of operation.

Operating the car in slow and go conditions, is going to yeild much better mileage than stop and go. If your on a busy limited access road, that slows down to 30 mph or so regularily, this is an optimum for the Prius, and not so optimum for standard cars, yielding the greatest improvement in fuel economy. If you have to come to a complete stop (or cannot modify your driving to avoid coming to a complete stop due to whatever), the Prius will have less advantage than a standard car.

If your commute is high speed highway driving, the Prius will have better fuel eocnomy than the Yaris, but not as much than in the slow-and-go conditions or slower highway driving. At 62 mph, the Prius will easily put 15 mpg improvment on the fuel economy over a Yaris.

Commonly overlooked Prius economies are the friction brakes (only used in panic, steep long downhill driving, and below 7 mph for the most driving). The braking in the Prius is mostly provided by the electrical system, which is brushless motors, electronics and the battery. In coastal plain operation the disk rotors will most lilkely rust to an unusable condition before the pads can even have a chance at wearing out after in excess of 100 K miles service. As long as you do not park the car in mud puddles. The rear drum brakes will last the life of the car. A standard car will usually need $1500 of brake work over the life of the car.

Another Prius economy is the starter and alternator, Prius does not have these, and the large motor that provides these functions is very overated for these mundane tasks. Toyota's have very good reputation for not needing repair of these unlike Fords, etc, so in comparison the Yaris, it might be a wash.

Do not kid yourself about the costs of these things, by thinking you will just sell the car before anything needs repair. There is a good reason for the rapid devaluation of standard cars, and it has to do with these wear items. A Prius maintains a resale value a higher fraction of the new car cost consequently.

Another advantage is the AC system. If you do not use AC normally, then its a disadvantage. Because you need to use the AC in the Prius not only to keep yourself cool, but the batteries too. On sunny days above 85 F for long drives, the AC is typically needed for battery cooling. If you use the AC , then the Prius AC system is an advantage, because its variable speed brushless electric motor compressor can run at much lower and varrying power that suits the conditions, automatically controlled by an advanced control computer. Versus the constant parasitic drag of the engine power takeoff, and constant drag of a standard compressor, and the manually operated control in standard cars. Drive a Prius down a shaddy two lane rather than the highway on those 95 F plus days, and there is significant reduction in energy used for the AC cooling, because the control will sense the lower demand and throttle back the AC compressor motor. Another advantage to the motorized AC compressor, is the engine can still stop and start as it does with AC off. Although, it will need to run longer to supply the electricity for the AC motor.