CNBC: Are Diesels Better Than Hybrids?

This is yet another example that uses the older model Prius for comparison.

The hope is to sour appeal for hybrids so much that you don't discover the 2010 Prius for awhile still. It's a reason why Toyota chose to spend a lot on advertising initially. Toyota predicted the competition would take advantage of outdated information to push a few more sales in the meantime... and they were right!
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I'm seriously baffled that VW has not made a hybrid-diesel yet. They seem like the company in the perfect position for that.

 

qoute :
I get the e-mails on a pretty regular basis. Almost all of them say the same thing: clean diesel cars are a great alternative for people who want fuel efficiency and a better driving experience so why aren't Americans waking up and buying more diesels?

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please stay sleeping
better cleaner air and less cancer.

 

The article uses a table to show what? That the Jetta TDI is a better deal than a Prius? No what it shows is that a Jetta TDI is a better choice over a Jetta, than a Prius is over a Camry. So how many people think the Jetta is as good a choice as a Camry? The sales figures suggest more people think a Camry is a better choice.

That assumes that you believe Intellichoice's figures, which they steadfastly fail to explain. Is the "maintenance" just scheduled maintenance? Or did they use say Consumer Reports or JD Power reliability feedback in some sort of complex formula to predict the cost of maintenance over the next 5 years? How much were they predicting gas/diesel would cost?

Of course, if I wasn't planning on the Gen III Prius as my next car, I might look at that BMW 335d. But I still drive the Gen II Prius too much because commuting to and from work, grocery shopping etc. I'd go for mileage. Not many opportunities for 335d-style fun in city traffic.

I'm not saying the clean diesel is not a good option for US drivers and the planet, or that a Jetta TDI isn't a good option (although I'd certainly go with a Camry- especially a TCH- over a Jetta with or without the TDI). I just despise studies that don't explain themselves well.

 

Would you rather have a Jetta TDI or Corvette or any other serious, power and handling car?

My thinking is:

• Prius - for ordinary life, groceries, work, what it takes to live
• 'latest hotness' - for the weekend and special events

The rule of thumb, 'get the right tool for the right job.' One thing the late Robert McNamara proved with F-111, one size does not fit all. For those who might not know the history, the F-111 was supposed to be the universal, fighter, attack bomber and super sonic bomber of the 1960s. Only it had a few problems:

1. Too big for aircraft carriers
2. Too small for strategic bomber
3. Too bulky for air defense, much less offense fighter

In one respect, it became the B-58 replacement for the Air Force, which continued to operate the B-52s as the core SAC force.

So step back and realize it isn't Prius OR <something else> but Prius AND <a real pony or handling car.> Put 14,000 miles per year on the Prius so you can afford the same gas budget for 1,000 miles on the 'ego trip' car. Heck, make it a Hummer ... H2 for good measure. <GRIN>


Bob Wilson

 

I own a diesel truck. Maybe it is politics, but diesel fuel fluctuates even more than gasoline. Righ now, locally, it is .25/gal more than unleaded.

The Prius is so quiet, (some argue too quiet) and the transition from electric to ICE is so smooth and quiet. I was near a VW diesel this week, and they are not quiet.

 

CNBC needs a new slogan, were is my suggestion. "CNBC, from limited minds comes limited news." That report to me nothing, because the reporter knew nothing of the subject, a big waste of time for all.

 

It is not that simple to make a diesel hybrid due to cold ( below freeing) weather starting. It takes more power forthe motor to turn the engine in starting. The efficiency will go down for frequent start and stop driving.

 

plus diesel startup is more violent, and diesel engines are up to 3k more espensive compared to petrols, as well as less reliable. Its too expensive right now to make diesel hybrid.

Toyota sells a lot of diesels in Europe and have sold first production diesel hybrid (mild hybrid delivery van in JDM).

 

Didn't VW announce a diesel hybrid for earlier this year and then cancel it a couple of months before its scheduled release date? Reason being to expensive to produce. Volkswagen Diesel-Hybrid Golf, At What Price? | Hybrid Cars

 

I went digging around for the Intellichoice article referred to by CNBC.. I found a PDF file with the tables put together by Intellichoice, but it said nothing about how they arrived at their numbers.

When I saw the number on their table which claims that the Jetta TDI will save the owner $6100 over 5 years of ownership vs. a conventional gasoline Jetta, I think that just stretches their credibility to the breaking point.

Anyway, as far as a diesel hybrid goes, I think the General Electric Hybrid Evolution diesel railroad locomotive gives us a pretty good idea of how a diesel-hybrid car might work. The diesel engine in the Gevo Hybrid locomotive is always running, and does not shut off or restart on the fly. Basically the hybrid battery system simply allows the diesel engine to run at idle speeds more often to reduce fuel consumption, and to allow for the recapture of energy from braking.

A diesel car might be like that. Engine runs all the time, but a strong electrical component will allow the car to rely on electric power more to move the car so the diesel engine can be left in idle more often (even when cruising at high speeds), and even when idling the diesel engine will be generating electric power that can be stored. I guess that will require a much larger battery pack though.

 

From this article on July 4, it sounds like VW is blowing 'hot and cold' on hybrids or electric powered vehicles:

IMHO, he faintly sounds like Bob Lutz ... somebody who late in his career 'got hybrid religion.'

Bob Wilson